MikeM
Member
Damn girl has curves for days. Smack dat ass for me.The ps5 design is bold and pretty slick imo
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[Rumor] Playstation 6 - Mark Cerny is back as PS6 Development Starts
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Rumor Platform
Azurro
Banned
This is not a proper comparison, the S is not even as performant as the One X.
Flutta
Banned
Vick
Gold Member
Quite the bold strategy to post what's arguably the better aged video in gaming history as proof of Cerny being a liar.
ResilientBanana
Member
If so, this has been the shortest and shittiest generation for gaming. Lack of games and console Availability has been atrocious.
Kiya's Guard
Member
Dangerous to rely on TFLOPS to get to sleep, we prefer counting sheep
TheRedRiders
Member
Just so people know, RGT is riding his claims off the Sony/Microsoft legal documentation which states the proposed dates for their next-generation machines. Of course his sources conveniently leaked that the PS6 is being worked on by Mark Cerny, something anyone could have predicted and guessed based off of Sony's behaviour in the past.
As for proposed specifications, I think it's important for the consoles to have a generational leap in CPU and GPU capabilities, so a doubling (likely much more) in GPU performance is almost a given.
As for the "special sauce", I think here is where things get interesting, PS4 brought with it some interesting features like the impressive memory setup (high bandwidth unified RAM) and async compute. The PS5 came along with breakthrough SSD technology so what will the PS6 bring? I don't think it'll bring a massive leap in SSD streaming speeds, simply because it doesn't need to. the PS5's 5.5 GB/s speed is already beastly, the only reason they'd increase it if the RAM pool is increased to 32 GB, the latter would be super dope. We know Mark Cerny's approach to the console design is based heavily on developer feedback, and it's no secret that developers, especially visual effects and programmers are always hungry for more RAM.
Another area where they could bring the "special sauce" is ray-tracing, although interestingly enough almost none of the developers asked for RT features in the PS5 console development. There's only so much you can do with RT and most games lighting setups closely match RT, especially in things like global illumination and ambient occlusion. However Cerny seem's to be a massive believer in RT, based off of his comments on RT being the "third phase of graphics" or something, so I think it's not crazy to speculate that the PS6 will have more dedicated and specialised hardware for ray-tracing, and more importantly making it more easy to implement and run games.
As for proposed specifications, I think it's important for the consoles to have a generational leap in CPU and GPU capabilities, so a doubling (likely much more) in GPU performance is almost a given.
As for the "special sauce", I think here is where things get interesting, PS4 brought with it some interesting features like the impressive memory setup (high bandwidth unified RAM) and async compute. The PS5 came along with breakthrough SSD technology so what will the PS6 bring? I don't think it'll bring a massive leap in SSD streaming speeds, simply because it doesn't need to. the PS5's 5.5 GB/s speed is already beastly, the only reason they'd increase it if the RAM pool is increased to 32 GB, the latter would be super dope. We know Mark Cerny's approach to the console design is based heavily on developer feedback, and it's no secret that developers, especially visual effects and programmers are always hungry for more RAM.
Another area where they could bring the "special sauce" is ray-tracing, although interestingly enough almost none of the developers asked for RT features in the PS5 console development. There's only so much you can do with RT and most games lighting setups closely match RT, especially in things like global illumination and ambient occlusion. However Cerny seem's to be a massive believer in RT, based off of his comments on RT being the "third phase of graphics" or something, so I think it's not crazy to speculate that the PS6 will have more dedicated and specialised hardware for ray-tracing, and more importantly making it more easy to implement and run games.
PianistaMacabro
Member
I would enjoy if ps5 started first.....Ps4 pro II is starting to bother
Ar¢tos
Member
I've been playing Stardew Valley on ps5 for the past month and I'm ok with it (not for lack of other games to play, I have a big backlog with some AAA games, but none of them is as fun as Stardew Valley).
Minsc
Gold Member
In some ways - the PSVR2 ended up being the hard split of generations everyone (myself included) jokes/complains about. In other ways, it's full of games already on older headsets ported up, but at least the newer exclusives really are something else to experience assuming you are compatible with the headset. It definitely feels like I'm getting my money's worth from the PS5 compared to like playing DQ11 which I could have done my on Switch or a PS4.
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SplunkyMunkey
Member
I think the ps6 is going to be similar specs to ps5 from 16gig of gddr to 20gig of gddr they will keep the same design on the ssd could be faster and around 1.5T the CPU could be around zen 3 or zen 4 around 3.8 and the GPU will be around 16/20tf running a higher frequency from 2.2 I say around 2.6 any higher would be greatful but that be pushing it and I know Xbox will go higher but I reckon Sony will create x3D cache either on the GPU or the CPU
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Captain Toad
Banned
Yeah, this is the job of these teams. It's not like they take a four year vacation after the launch of the newest console.
Those are weak specs for even a ps5 pro...not happening. We are getting a ps6 probably when 3nm becomes or lower becomes feasible allowing for a 8/10x leap its hard enough trying to justify a ps5 rightnow considering the lazy cross-gen games and middling fidelity displayed by the current crop of next gen games launching on a far superior machine(ps4 to 5). Launching a console with those specs would be a disaster and redundant.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Funny enough you aimed this at console gamer's in defence of PC gamers having the right to play anything because they own a PC.
Yet PC gamers don't care if the PS6 is in development for that exact reason that McGILLAZ said.
They don't care about console games and look down on them unless there is a PC port and they will not buy another platform to play the games because they believe they have the right to play everything and the games should come to them.
Ironic don't ya think?
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The problem with RT is that until a majority of users have hardware that can utilize the tech effectively, the need to support conventional baked lighting for systems that can't will remain the priority.
Its why we're seeing it mainly used as an augment (shadows, ao, etc) or an alternative scheme. You can't tie all your lighting efforts to a technology that only a small percentage of users with the latest hardware can use.
Making that hard break from the past is difficult, especially when its strictly speaking not necessary. Obviously its better in many ways, but until it becomes the norm -which is mainly about market penetration of capable hardware- supporting systems that cannot handle the workload involved has to remain top priority.
Its why we're seeing it mainly used as an augment (shadows, ao, etc) or an alternative scheme. You can't tie all your lighting efforts to a technology that only a small percentage of users with the latest hardware can use.
Making that hard break from the past is difficult, especially when its strictly speaking not necessary. Obviously its better in many ways, but until it becomes the norm -which is mainly about market penetration of capable hardware- supporting systems that cannot handle the workload involved has to remain top priority.
Folks be pipe dreaming. The days of low hanging fruit and massive spec jumps are over. This generation had the smallest jump in specs ever on GPU (7/8 times) and memory (2 times) and if you were a pro console owner it's even worse.
Consoles only improved their obvious weak spots like CPU and storage speed. Modern consoles are very balanced, except the series S.
The real bottleneck is on DEVELOPERS and BUDGET. Of all the games released on last gen consoles, how many truly had to push the machine to it's limits? We will still be getting indie platformers and first person hide and seek horror games. This will be even worse on this gen. Folks think that indie devs will be all of a sudden developing Metros and Cyberpunks just because they have better specs available...
The way I see it, The Switch proved that folks just want good games and specs don't matter as much.
Consoles only improved their obvious weak spots like CPU and storage speed. Modern consoles are very balanced, except the series S.
The real bottleneck is on DEVELOPERS and BUDGET. Of all the games released on last gen consoles, how many truly had to push the machine to it's limits? We will still be getting indie platformers and first person hide and seek horror games. This will be even worse on this gen. Folks think that indie devs will be all of a sudden developing Metros and Cyberpunks just because they have better specs available...
The way I see it, The Switch proved that folks just want good games and specs don't matter as much.
Lets hope they hire someone from the xbox team, three ps5s , first one screamed of coil whine as soon as u started to play a game, second one fan was noisey then gave up, sonys replacement quiet when turned on but as soon as fan ramps up when u starta game it like a rickety old refrigerator in corner of room, yet both my xbox s, x silent, my ps4 pro is silent compared to ps5
Unknown?
Member
They will have an optional drive. So many will be screwed out of backwards compatibility if they do digital only.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I feel with next-gen they should take a more measured approach.
Technically, all we need are 4K 60fps consoles. That means that what you need is something that can run native 4K at a minimum of 40fps, which will allow you to use FSR2/dlss type technologies to push past 60fps. This would mean that 28 - 30TF consoles will be good enough.
I feel the rest of their die budget should go to RT cores. Have enough of those to ensure the GPU isn't starved for performance. I believe that lighting via RT would make more of an impact to overall visual quality than anything else.
Take RAM up to 24GB, an SSD capable of 8GB/s, and call it a day.
And this rumor is kinda silly, everyone knows that some sort of work has already started on the next-gen consoles. Even if they may still be like 4 years away.
Darius87
Member
what did he lied about?
SoloKingRobert
Banned
Mark Cerny has probably ran out of ideas...
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Isn't that basically Cyberpunk?
Even God of War Ragnarok and Horizon Forbidden West push the PS4 pretty far.
I think a Pro model is entirely appropriate. I'd like to see games pushed to their limits within a generation. I'd like to see base consoles get a 4k30 game with the option of a 60 fps performance mode, but a Pro model getting the 4K60 with full fidelity.
The fact that we get performance and fidelity modes that we have to choose from, suggests to me that there is room for Pro consoles, where we don't have to choose.
I mean, I'm pretty sure all the major headline games this year are exclusive to this generation: ff16, starfield, spiderman...
This is the first generation in the digital age with full BC (worth noting that X1 had some 360 BC), so I think it is to be expected that we'd see longer cross gen than past generations and it's likely to be the norm moving forward, particularly with increased PC support.
I think you're right on the money. If you look at this generation, the things that we're still not able to see say on the PS5 are full RTX at 4K with fidelity and AI like Sophy across the board with say 11 cars rather than 4.
I think the dream for GT9 on PS6 will be 4K120 with RTX and all AI cars. That's a tall order of course.
I think we'll see the PS6 also double down on the strengths of the PS5 for example PCIE6 with a much faster SSD.
I'd love for the options next gen to be 60 or 120.
Vick
Gold Member
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Agree with this for the most part.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I'm not sure that the Switch proved that at all. It has essentially no competition in the handheld space and it hasn't sold better than the DS.
I think we're already seeing hardware limitations on this generation, even running games built for the previous generation and not being able to absolutely brute force them.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
We don't even know if he is ideas guy.
But I don't see how they can 1up dualsense.
I'd place a large bet on the unique hardware that defines next gen being dedicated AI based upscaling - pushing beyond whatever version of DLSS is even able to do when the consoles release.
By going all in on that, the consoles immediately get so much more headroom. They'll take less power to run current PS5 games at an even higher output resolution.
A good ai reconstruction these days (outside of games, a non real time model) can take 720p up to a crisp 4k.
Bump up the CPU, memory and GPU alongside that and you've got a huge leap over the current gen. The SSD doesn't need to be faster, that will sustain a few gens - the tools to even make full use of it are still in development.
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Elder Legend
Banned
Improve the battery life would be a good start. Everything else I think is fine.
TheRedRiders
Member
I agree. I was in a rush when I typed that post so I didn't get to complete it. I was intending to add AI upscaling as well.
It would a huge game changer for Sony, by the time we get the PS6 we'll have the technology of 3rd or 4th generation upscaling techniques (FSR 3/4 and DLSS 3/4). Sony have always been obsessed with efficiency in the system and APU design, PS4 Pro was a good example with checkerboard rendering over native 4K resolution.
The upscaling will also work really well with ray-tracing.
Darius87
Member
what a great non answer.Nothing.
GermanZepp
Member
I love nextgen consoles chit chat and speculation. It's the most fun. Memes fuel and Bans left and right.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Not sure Cerny designed the Dual Sense, but I think it's a huge claim to think that Sony et all have run out of ideas for the controller. They've done a fairly decent job of being iterative in most generations and I think you can argue that the Dual Sense is one of the biggest jumps from one controller to the next.
I think we can assume a decent upgrade within the generation or in the next. Reality we've already seen the dual sense edge as well.
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bentanchorbolt
Banned
Y’all need to log off and go play some games.
But didn't the same sort of thing happen last Gen?
And that is precisely why it's going to take longer for next gen consoles to show up. These consoleshave shown performance limits already. but it won't be that easy to get much more performance of a console like form factor, these consoles are larger than some mini PCs out there. PS5 uses liquid metal...
Physiognomonics
Member
The problem with DLSS is that you need good amount of dedicated silicon for that. That's OK when you sell from $500 to $1000 GPUs, but that's clearly not possible on cheap consoles APUs. Besides Sony developers (notably Insomniac and Guerrilla) have their own reconstruction solutions that work pretty well for them and are already superior to FSR 2 in my book. They just need to improve them.
What Sony need is robust and dedicated RT hardware similar to Nvidia. And it seems Cerny has being working on a similar solution according to one of his patent...
For PS5 we already knew EXACTLY how their custom I/O was going to work based on Cerny's patent. And this time he has being very busy with integrating the whole RT rendering inside the GPU based on his patents.
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Caio
Member
We will have something better, Bloodborne Remake as a launch Game, same as Demon's Souls for PS5, a faithful remake, mark my words.
digital_ghost
Member
I paid for my $699 pre-order already for PS6 bitches.
Jk I hope there are no hardware shortages like ps5.
Jk I hope there are no hardware shortages like ps5.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
The funniest thing I generally hear are people who have this idea that the hardware is creating the frame.
Something being 60 fps has more to do with how demanding the game is , So I don't know what to tell you Mike but it doesn't matter what the playstation 6 is fucking running if a developer wants to use the hardware to make a very demanding game and they want to forego some of the frame rate to get to that point that's what they're gonna do no matter how powerful you make the system.... That has nothing to actually do with hardware. That has more to do with developer intent, artistic direction, creative freedom etc
And this has nothing to do with the industry being backwards in needing to move forward or anything fucking silly like that , the thing you're talking about isn't some deep requirement, it merely is a preference that you have, Considering that consoles outsell high end gaming PC's by significant amount it's clear the majority don't really care about this as much as you might think. Steam statistics literally show us how little people really care about the thing you are talking about.
So maybe you should just stick to PC because even on that platform you need to change and alter your settings to even get to 60FPS based on the hardware , That is based on a modular design and I just don't know how many people give a shit about that number to spend $3000 or $4000 to go above it....
To save the industry based on your preference what would you even suggest Sony and Microsoft do? Force developers to only use 60 FPS no matter how much it fucking downgrades their game?
Oh yes design on our hardware where we tell you how to make your game lol
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Well that's just your opinion... That's probably why we haven't moved on from it because the thing you're saying is a subjective idea as in an opinion...
Just because you're talking about finite hardware doesn't actually mean the statement you're making is going to be perceived as some factual thing based on what we're talking about in context. An artist uses this hardware to create just like a photographer would use a camera but you have photographers that still use older cameras because they like the look or feel that they get from it you could spend all fucking day bothering them on how powerful some new camera is and telling them for fact that it's "better" they're going to tell you they like their old Polaroid 680. You're gonna keep fucking crying on how the industry didn't move on from this or that, The artist chooses how they apply the hardware. What you personally believe is better or worse has no relevance
I think it's funny in this day and age some of you still haven't figured this out. It's why you have movie directors that still use 25 or 30 frames because that's dependent on what's happening in any particular scene and of course they might use 60 frames to show speed or to exaggerate something that does not fucking mean they just always want to use the latest and greatest regardless of circumstance completely disregarding artistic direction.
So I have no problem with 60 frames in multiplayer games that does not mean I want everyone of my cinematic games looking like fucking soap operas... What you might perceive as more fluid because you personally like it other people might find it less cinematic and it might take away from that experience but ironically that's exactly why filmmakers literally go with multiple frame variations. I played The Last Of Us remaster at 60 fps for about 40 min or so before I just put it back to 30 fps. I don't care for that frame rate on games like that, that doesn't mean I want to play Battlefield at 30 fps...
So I'm not making an argument for the industry to move on from 60FPS and make it exclusively 30 I'm arguing that this entire choice is not up to you or me and it's up to the developer and the industry should continue to be free to have that option based on the contexts of what they're creating. So 60 or 120 is NEVER going to be fucking "standard" anymore then 8K DSLRs or the highest end film camera is not the "standard" in film or photography, all that is artist dependent.
Elder Legend
Banned
lol yes, it happens every gen. 2-2.5 years is the cross-gen period but people seem to forget that and always pretend that it never happened previously. 2015 is when we started getting good next-gen only titles at the time like Wticher 3 and Bloodborne.
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1. Games and films are different media. What's acceptable in one isn't necessarily acceptable in the other.
2. The 24fps standard in cinema isn't really any kind of artistic choice. It's just a hangover from the original technology. 60fps looks jarring but it'd almost certainly be better for films too - if we had the chance to get used to it.
Putonahappyface
Gold Member
Also hall effect sticks would be a good move.
Elder Legend
Banned
What's a hall effect?
Putonahappyface
Gold Member
Hall Effect Joysticks - What Is It And Why Does It Matter
Since the components in a Hall Effect joystick never physically touch, the sensors do not wear out like they do on analog joysticks. This means that in theory, Hall Effect joysticks never develop drift in their lifetime. In other words, magnets, how do they work.
thegamingsetup.com
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Its not saying they are the same media, its saying both have different frames for the same reasons....
That its dependent on the creation of what is being made and what they are trying to convey.
No, its 100% a choice. There is not law saying that it must be 24fps or anything dumb like that.
Directors, editors etc use different frame rates based on what they are trying to convey in difference scenes. That is the same thing going on in gaming where developer choose 30fps as oppose to 60fps. A choice is being made based on the end goal if the product. MP games make sense for 60fps, while a game that is narrative based that is going for a cinematic feel, the developer would rather spend those resources on graphical fidelity capped at 30.
So some of the same reasons why someone might use 30 or 24 frames in film are some of the same reasons why a developer might do that in game.
All of what you are saying is based on a personal preference, not some law or something. All of that is artist dependent and you'll need to get over that bud.
Elder Legend
Banned
I see...so basically you want them to get a permanent fix on the whole drifting stick thing. I never had that issue with the DualSense personally. I did though with the Dualshock 4.Hall Effect Joysticks - What Is It And Why Does It Matter
Since the components in a Hall Effect joystick never physically touch, the sensors do not wear out like they do on analog joysticks. This means that in theory, Hall Effect joysticks never develop drift in their lifetime. In other words, magnets, how do they work.
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