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[Backfoggen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbazWEWTZC0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA7Sefkwsqs

Ignoring the frame rate of Kameo and quality of Conker in these videos (obviously fault of the recording, not the hardware), they are comparable. At least in my eye.

The thing is that even in the crappier looking 360 launch titles which started development on Xbox 1 the devs at least stuck the leftover hardware power somewhere. In Kameo it's the ridiculous amount of enemies and Parallax Mapping pretty much everywhere and in PD:Z it's the object-based motion blur and also PM being used extremely extensively.

We haven't seen anything like that in any of the Wii U titles so far.

 

[KageMaru]

I have both and I can say, depending on the TV. On an HDTV, yes. You can see a difference, but they are still "comparable". On a SDTV, they look closer. I say comparable, not a like for a reason.

Even on a SDTV, the difference is noticeable. The lack of pixel clarity doesn't hide the higher res textures, higher shader quality, number of models on screen, and all the other improvements we see Kameo has over Conkers.

Also found a much better quality video for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2YB6dfVA2Y&feature=relmfu

Not really sure how you can claim the differences aren't obvious.

Nintendo also said 3ds cards could only go up to 2gb but we've got 4gb games already

Yeah but even then we knew what the max size was going to be.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbazWEWTZC0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA7Sefkwsqs

Ignoring the frame rate of Kameo and quality of Conker in these videos (obviously fault of the recording, not the hardware), they are comparable. At least in my eye.

The original Xbox version of Kameo might be a better point for comparision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZjOYca7lMM

Even at this incomplete state it shows the 360 version basically reused the same assets (models, textures, environments) for the most part, with the major improvements being to lighting and the resolution bump. Still very much comparable though.

If this is true, they should be able to sell a controller kit for $30 to allow owners to play blu-ray movies. However is it true the largest disc size is 25GB? If so, would that mean the system lacks support for dual layer discs?

It hasn't been specified if the optical drive can read dual layer BD yet, but it can read dual layer DVD (it has to for 100% Wii compatibility). The only thing confirmed is game software uses 25GB discs for now.

It's worth noting that in 2006 Nintendo said they would be releasing a "deluxe" Wii capable of playing DVD movies in the future and they even went so far as to license the proper codecs and software for that. No one knows what really happened there, but it's presumed the success of the system (to the degree they couldn't satisfy demand for a couple years in) probably killed the need to bother in Nintendo's eyes. I'm sure they also don't see much value in disc movie playing for Wii U, especially as (unlike MS/Sony) it's a business they don't draw any real revenue from.

I think if we do ever see a DVD/BRD movie playing variant it'll come from a hardware partner like Panasonic, Sharp or NEC. Of course I also sort of figured we'd see that for Wii and it never materialized.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Even on a SDTV, the difference is noticeable. The lack of pixel clarity doesn't hide the higher res textures, higher shader quality, number of models on screen, and all the other improvements we see Kameo has over Conkers.

Also found a much better quality video for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2YB6dfVA2Y&feature=relmfu

Not really sure how you can claim the differences aren't obvious.



Yeah but even then we knew what the max size was going to be.

While I was playing Kameo, I could not stop thinking that this was impossible in a Xbox.

 

[frankie_baby]

Yeah but even then we knew what the max size was going to be.

True but not from anything Nintendo said

 

[plagiarize]

While I was playing Kameo, I could not stop thinking that this was impossible in a Xbox.

yep. Kameo was legit. the game that I used to convince my wife an HDTV was worth it.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

The thing is that even in the crappier looking 360 launch titles which started development on Xbox 1 the devs at least stuck the leftover hardware power somewhere. In Kameo it's the ridiculous amount of enemies and Parallax Mapping pretty much everywhere and in PD:Z it's the object-based motion blur and also PM being used extremely extensively.

We haven't seen anything like that in any of the Wii U titles so far.

Well, that's not entirely true. Digital Foundry commented on various lighting, shading and processing effects in Nintendo Land, Pikmin 3 and ZombiU in the E3 builds that they deemed "true next gen" or something to that effect. The problem is that they were pretty spartain in use, and modeling/texturing appears very much rooted in PS360 level capability and there were inconsistent dissapointments elsewhere. Of course, these were also builds a good half year away from release.

More recently we also had Ancel mention a new "next gen" lighting engine for his ground up Rayman game, which presumably wouldn't have been feasible previously. I expect these are the sorts of improvements Wii U will see for the most part in games built up around the hardware, improvements to lighting and shading, which makes sense as it is bringing a DX10.1+/SM4/5 hybrid GPGPU into the equation versus the DX9/SM3 GPUs that 360 and PS3 sport. Over twice the system RAM / over thrice the framebuffer doesn't hurt either.

 

[Christberg]

yep. Kameo was legit. the game that I used to convince my wife an HDTV was worth it.

Kameo was easily the best looking X360 launch title IMO. It was probably the ONLY launch title that made me do a double take when I saw it the first time. Everything else was just meh to me.

 

[cyberheater]

Kameo was easily the best looking X360 launch title IMO. It was probably the ONLY launch title that made me do a double take when I saw it the first time. Everything else was just meh to me.

I played it the other day. It still looks good.

 

[Tears For Fears]

PGR3 was the best looking title, it was just marred by shit resolution and jaggies out the asshole.

 

[XtremeXpider]

PGR3 was the best looking title, it was just marred by shit resolution and jaggies out the asshole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjhhpcxrW6U

 

[Saint Gregory]

PGR3 was the best looking title, it was just marred by shit resolution and jaggies out the asshole.

Yep, PGR3 was my first 360 game IRC and there was nothing last gen about it.

I still think it's asking a lot out of the WiiU to wow people in the same way that going from seeing graphics in sometime sub 480P resolutions to seeing games in 720P/1080P. But it's hard to argue with people about these things, everyone sees what they want to see.

Honestly, the biggest generational leap to me was going from the PS1 to the Dreamcast. It took having SoulCalibur on the TV in front of me to believe that it was real.

 

[JordanN]

I've yet to see a Wii U game that looks as good as Uncharted 3 or Halo 4. Or hell, even Uncharted 2.

If you compare individual features, those games have already been surpassed.

During my Wii U trip, I also played some PS3 games to get some fair comparisons. I noticed the textures in Uncharted 3 are of lower quality then the ones found in Nintendo Land. The lighting it used was also dated. Very DX9 worthy whereas I would rate the lighting in Nintendoland easily on par with Directx 11 class GPU's.

The only thing Wii U games have yet to make a big leap in is polygons (although Nano Assault comes close to breaking that barrier).

Besides, the Wii got a game early on that looked like a decent increase from the previous gen (Super Mario Galaxy)

To the Gamecube and PS2 sure, but to the Xbox, the jump was marginal. Some nice textures here and there but geometry isn't much different and lighting is also the same.

Nintendo land represents a much bigger leap from the previous gen than Galaxy does.

 

[Zarovitch]

I don't know where to ask it, so i try here.

Is it sure that the USB Lan Network Adapter will work for the WiiU?

 

[Sexually Aggressive Uncle]

Yep. PGR3 is the 360 launch game people should be looking at, not Kameo or PDZ. When you were playing PGR3 there was no doubt that THIS was a next gen title. There wasn't anything out there at the time that was comparable.

I have yet to see a Wii-U game that makes an equivalent leap and not sure that I ever will.

 

[CuboidFX]

I don't know where to ask it, so i try here.

Is it sure that the USB Lan Network Adapter will work for the WiiU?

I swear they've said somewhere that it will, but I can't remember where. If all other Wii accessories work with it though, I can't see why it wouldn't.

 

[Durante]

The lighting it used was also dated. Very DX9 worthy whereas I would rate the lighting in Nintendoland easily on par with Directx 11 class GPU's

I will quote this since I think it's an amazing statement.

 

[netBuff]

I don't know where to ask it, so i try here.

Is it sure that the USB Lan Network Adapter will work for the WiiU?

I swear they've said somewhere that it will, but I can't remember where. If all other Wii accessories work with it though, I can't see why it wouldn't.

Yes, as it is written in the book of features on the Nintendo website:

Wii U can access the Internet via wireless (IEEE 802.11b/g/n) connection. The console features four USB 2.0 connectors – two in the front and two in the rear – that support Wii LAN Adapters (sold separately).
http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/wii_u_52414.html

 

[lednerg]

Part of the diminishing returns equation in gaming is how much time it takes to make games that 'blow away' everything that preceded it. If you placed the average development times of each generation on a graph, it would not be a straight, horizontal line. It would be an exponential curve. Same goes for budgets. This also explains why publishers have been moving away from exclusives to the much less risky multiplatform model.

It took the better part of a decade for games to get as good as they are on current gen hardware, so expecting new mind-blowing games to just present themselves out of nowhere is quite a bit unfair. Wii U dev kits have only been final since this Spring, after all. Also, most devs are most likely working on the same timetable that the PS4/720 are on, planning to launch their next-gen multiplatform titles over a year from now.

 

[Dantis]

If you compare individual features, those games have already been surpassed.

During my Wii U trip, I also played some PS3 games to get some fair comparisons. I noticed the textures in Uncharted 3 are of lower quality then the ones found in Nintendo Land. The lighting it used was also dated. Very DX9 worthy whereas I would rate the lighting in Nintendoland easily on par with Directx 11 class GPU's.

Nope. I haven t played it, but the videos I've seen show no evidence of this whatsoever.

 

[RedSwirl]

Microsoft and Sony are trying their hardest to try and cram the features of a full-blown gaming PC into their consoles. Nintendo knows that a games console should be used for playing games (as is their title). Besides, why would you need a DVD/blu-ray movie player built into your console when most people have at least two DVD players in their homes and one Blu-ray player? It's like expecting your Blu-ray player to do your goddamn dishes.

They've figured out that the number of consumers willing to buy a device for gaming alone is pretty limited. Smartphones and tablets have already switched mobile hardware over to this kind of environment, and fewer people outside of Japan are willing to buy a handheld that only plays games. They want general purpose devices that also play games.

I think Microsoft at least knows that it's only a matter of time until Apple releases some kind of set top box that does the same thing to the living room environment. If they do, a lot of people won't want to buy single-purpose set top boxes anymore, and that includes game consoles. Microsoft, and maybe Sony as well, are trying to get there first.

 

[XtremeXpider]

If you compare individual features, those games have already been surpassed.

During my Wii U trip, I also played some PS3 games to get some fair comparisons. I noticed the textures in Uncharted 3 are of lower quality then the ones found in Nintendo Land. The lighting it used was also dated. Very DX9 worthy whereas I would rate the lighting in Nintendoland easily on par with Directx 11 class GPU's.

The only thing Wii U games have yet to make a big leap in is polygons (although Nano Assault comes close to breaking that barrier).


To the Gamecube and PS2 sure, but to the Xbox, the jump was marginal. Some nice textures here and there but geometry isn't much different and lighting is also the same.

Nintendo land represents a much bigger leap from the previous gen than Galaxy does.

Have you played halo 4?

EDIT: Nano Assault? what?

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

PGR3 was the best looking title, it was just marred by shit resolution and jaggies out the asshole.

Also shit framerate (30fps) for a racer. Actually the only 1st party 360 launch games to manage 60fps were the XBLA titles (GeoWars RE, Hexic HD, etc).

 

[JordanN]

Nope. I haven t played it, but the videos I've seen show no evidence of this whatsoever.

Edit: To be specific, Animal Crossing and Zelda Battle Quest demonstrate they use 1GB memory and the GPGPU/CPU.

Have you played halo 4?

EDIT: Nano Assault? what?

Don't have to, because it's similar to the graphics on PS3 which I just compared.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Also shit framerate (30fps) for a racer. Actually the only 1st party 360 launch games to manage 60fps were the XBLA titles (GeoWars RE, Hexic HD, etc).

PGR3 was 30fps, but it is smooth. It is like Forza Horizon, it is not a real "problem".

Don't have to, because it's similar to the graphics on PS3 which I just compared.

Sure?

 

[Durante]

To be specific, Animal Crossing and Zelda Battle Quest show strong evidence the 1GB of RAM and GPGPU are being utilized extensively.

Are you for real?

 

[cyberheater]

Also shit framerate (30fps) for a racer.

PGR3 played just great at 30fps. It had a fantastic blur effect and the controls were a very responsive. A true next gen game.

 

[JordanN]

Are you for real?

Yeah, I'm being real.

 

[Zarovitch]

Yes, as it is written in the book of features on the Nintendo website:

Thanks, i'll buy one then.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Yep. PGR3 is the 360 launch game people should be looking at, not Kameo or PDZ. When you were playing PGR3 there was no doubt that THIS was a next gen title. There wasn't anything out there at the time that was comparable.

I have yet to see a Wii-U game that makes an equivalent leap and not sure that I ever will.

PGR3: 600p / 30 fps (18,432,000 pixels/sec)

NSMBU/Nintendo Land: 720p / 60 fps (55,296,000 pixels/sec) + 480p / 60 fps (24,595,200 pixels/sec)

 

[BlankaBR]

Yeah, I'm being real.

Extensively...what do you see!

 

[RedSwirl]

I just found those reports claiming that ZombiU runs in 1080p. Were those ever debunked?

 

[Glorified G]

Yeah, I'm being real.

You remind me of a friend way back that argued Soul Calibur on DC wasn't impressive and looked practically the same to Tekken 3.

People see what they want to see.

So by looking at Animal Crossing and Zelda Battle Quest you derive strong evidence that 1 GB of RAM and GPGPU are being utilized extensively? That's very impressive.

Brand loyalty has no bounds.

 

[Durante]

Yeah, I'm being real.

So by looking at Animal Crossing and Zelda Battle Quest you derive strong evidence that 1 GB of RAM and GPGPU are being utilized extensively? That's very impressive.

 

[Christberg]

For the record, I'm reserving judgment on Wii U's power level until after launch when we have loads of Digital Foundry articles and I have one plugged into my TV to work with. I also recommend everyone else do the same.

*bearing in mind that anybody expecting an order of magnitude increase in power should pack their bags up now.

 

[cyberheater]

To be specific, Animal Crossing and Zelda Battle Quest show strong evidence the 1GB of RAM and GPGPU are being utilized extensively.

Point out and explain exactly what you are referring to because I just don't see it. And please don't just say 'lighting'.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I just found those reports claiming that ZombiU runs in 1080p. Were those ever debunked?

Yes, it's confirmed 720p.

 

[BlankaBR]

So by looking at Animal Crossing and Zelda Battle Quest you derive strong evidence that 1 GB of RAM and GPGPU are being utilized extensively? That's very impressive.

Its not impressive its laughable

 

[Gemüsepizza]

PGR3: 600p / 30 fps (18,432,000 pixels/sec)

NSMBU/Nintendo Land: 720p / 60 fps (55,296,000 pixels/sec) + 480p / 60 fps (24,595,200 pixels/sec)

1. You totally miss his point, he is talking about a leap compared to previous titles (from the end of a generation, not from the beginning).

2. Ridge Racer 7: 1920x1080x60 = 124.416.000 pixels/sec. Proof that PS3 > Wii U? See how pointless this is?

 

[JordanN]

So by looking at Animal Crossing and Zelda Battle Quest you derive strong evidence that 1 GB of RAM and GPGPU are being utilized extensively? That's very impressive.

If it's bad english/grammar my point was both games take advantage of the 1GB memory and GPGPU. If that's still wrong I don't know any other way to address it.

 

[wsippel]

If it's bad english/grammar my point was both games take advantage of the 1GB memory and GPGPU. If that's still wrong I don't know any other way to address it.

GPGPU isn't something you can see. And I heavily doubt Nintendo Land uses it for anything.

 

[BlankaBR]

If it's bad english/grammar my point was both games take advantage of the 1GB memory and GPGPU. If that's still wrong I don't know any other way to address it.

How does it take advantage of 1 gb ram???
What do you see?

 

[EloquentM]

This thread is getting embarrassing, on both sides.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

uh the wait is killing me...

so if someone guts one open how do they go about testing for specs?

 

[JordanN]

GPGPU isn't something you can see. And I heavily doubt Nintendo Land uses it for anything.

Then why have I read documents that says it does?
"Figure 38-1 An Image Rendered with Global Illumination Accelerated by the GPU"

How does it take advantage of 1 gb ram???
What do you see?

Textures?

 

[XtremeXpider]

Don't have to, because it's similar to the graphics on PS3 which I just compared.

You need to play Halo 4:

The lighting is amazing:

And textures are great too:

IMO Halo 4 is more impressive than any Wii U launch game.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

PGR3: 600p / 30 fps (18,432,000 pixels/sec)

NSMBU/Nintendo Land: 720p / 60 fps (55,296,000 pixels/sec) + 480p / 60 fps (24,595,200 pixels/sec)

If youre counting resolution and framerate, Next generation would be 120hz and/or uHD/4K.

 

[Ryoku]

Then why have read documents that says it does?
"Figure 38-1 An Image Rendered with Global Illumination Accelerated by the GPU"

Just because it has really nice lighting doesn't mean that it's done by the GPU, necessarily. It can be done by the CPU, as well. GPGPU function isn't something that you can just look at a picture and say, "Oh, look! The GPGPU is really coming into work here."

 

[AzaK]

If the tech capabilities of WiiU were comparable to the next generation of hardware then it shouldn't be a problem for devs to demonstrably show graphics that easily outstrip the current HD twins capabilities.

More polys, better textures, more shaders, higher resolution and higher frame rates.

I'm pretty sure that when we see the launch games for PS720 they'll look way ahead of what's currently possible.

How many times will you ignore the fact that people need to actually put some sort of effort in to use the power of the system.

Nintendo is the one to do it for launch and they are not focussing on games like that.

 

[BlankaBR]

You need to play Halo 4:



IMO Halo 4 is more impressive than any Wii U launch game.

Halo 4 pics are looking stunning, ZombiU should be looking as good as that, at least