[Bloomberg] Sony Working on Handheld Console for PS5 Games to Rival Switch
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playbignbox
Member
Only those with amnesia would trust Sony in the portable console market after the neglect they showed to those who bought the PS Vita.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
That's because you're ignoring the fundamentals.
DS and 3DS had a huge advantage because they had Nintendo's primary focus, especially when Sony had to surge resources towards the PS3 and abandon the Vita.
If Sony can produce a PlayStation handheld that runs the same games, simply at a lower resolution, there is no division of resources. The support for the PlayStation console is the same as the PlayStation handheld, and overall that's significantly higher than Nintendo devices as evidenced by combined sales of the PS2 and PSP vs the DS and Gamecube.
That's not to suggest that a PlayStation handheld will outright outsell the Switch 2 or any future product, but they could certainly eat a chunk of the market share and greatly increase their TAM.
If the PS5 sells 125 million units and a PlayStation handheld sells 50 million units, you're increasing your TAM to 175 million units and probably increasing your MAU by at least 20 million. I'd say that a PlayStation handheld with full support selling 50 million would be pretty conservative. There's not much reason to believe a PlayStation handheld that is fully supported can't sell more units than the PSP.
You combine the PS4's 117 million and the PSPs 80 million and you're looking at a TAM drawing close to 200 million... That's a significant dominance of the market and presents the next stage in platform building. The PS5 is going to outsell the PS4 but the question is up in the air fo the handheld, we'll see ultimately. It could underperform, perform the same, or outperform.
RetroGamingUK
Member
A PS5 Portable that's compatible with all existing and upcoming PS5 games would really extend the life of the PS5.
If this happens I'd expect PS5 to see game support well into the 2030s.
If this happens I'd expect PS5 to see game support well into the 2030s.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Except no handheld can match PS5, you are operating in a physical world where you need more power to push more pixels, which means more heat, which means more space needed to components, and that is directly opposite to what you want handheld to be.
At this point there is no secret sauce, you either go more power and lower battery, or less power and more battery, or if you are not Nintendo you give the user the option to set it up as they want. See the performance of the ROG Ally X (which I think is somewhere between PS4 Pro and PS5) and realise this is a $899 handheld. No way Sony will want to launch at such a price.
manzo
Member
Yep, this is for my family too. Can't play Mario Kart or Mario Party on a PS5. And no, when with kids, emulation is not an option because of online features and the plug-and-play features.
RetroGamingUK
Member
I'm not expecting a release any time soon.
I expect current gen to last a long long time and have a longer overlap once next gen starts.
Diminishing returns and all that.
Impotaku
Member
kind of want to see Sony make another handheld just so I can laugh when they crash out for a 3rd time, no way in hell they'd risk it been their main console it'll be a side release which means it will be doomed to fail from the start as Sony is basically google when it comes to supporting things they release.
kungfuian
Member
Nintendo's branding and type of game is much better suited to the drop in drop out nature of portable gaming vs. Sony who has a strong history of high fidelity single player games best played on the big screen.
Nintendo also very smartly made their entire platform unified w. a merged dev pipeline, and they make games in a predominantly cartoon style which are more 'scalable' visually.
To be successful a Sony potable will need many more games in the vein of Astrobot and, more importantly, a unified dev pipeline. Of course Sony could do this but it would come at a cost. Many here, myself included, would hate that, because it would mean holding back their developers to the lower spec device. Or they'd have to fragment their dev resources (and very likely under support the device due to lack of software).
I'm not opposed to another Sony portable. I think they're great devices, but I can't imagine they would find Nintendo level success unless they make massive changes to the way they make games.
I'd much rather see them continue to go all in on high spec home consoles.
Nintendo also very smartly made their entire platform unified w. a merged dev pipeline, and they make games in a predominantly cartoon style which are more 'scalable' visually.
To be successful a Sony potable will need many more games in the vein of Astrobot and, more importantly, a unified dev pipeline. Of course Sony could do this but it would come at a cost. Many here, myself included, would hate that, because it would mean holding back their developers to the lower spec device. Or they'd have to fragment their dev resources (and very likely under support the device due to lack of software).
I'm not opposed to another Sony portable. I think they're great devices, but I can't imagine they would find Nintendo level success unless they make massive changes to the way they make games.
I'd much rather see them continue to go all in on high spec home consoles.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Yah. Sony couldn't even make any dent when Nintendo wasn't at its peak. They have already failed twice in a row, with the second flop being one of the biggest Playstation hardware failure of all time.
Donkusei
Member
And now Switch (2) has not Nintendo's primary focus?
I mean, it's just even more true nowadays, they have only one console, so they release everything on it.
Maybe, but Sony releases like two games / year. It's not like they have a huge first-party line-up. The (first-party) games don't even sell that well on PS5 already (if you compare to their games on PS4), I don't think that a new portable from Sony would change anything for Nintendo.
Muddy
Member
PSP was a failure?
Donkusei
Member
Not really, but it didn't change anything to the NDS success. And obviously taking the lead on the handheld market was what Sony wanted.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
This would be an extremely stupid decision so it's quite possible.
You can only enter Nintendo's market by doing Nintendo things. That takes much more than releasing a portable console and hoping for the best.
You can only enter Nintendo's market by doing Nintendo things. That takes much more than releasing a portable console and hoping for the best.
Physiognomonics
Member
If they allow a TV output this could be very well be a very appealing machine. It's obvious tablet sized machines are in high demand right now.
A tablet that could natively run all PS4 library and most of the PS5 games (at 40fps say instead of 60fps with reduced resolution)? This would be a very compelling product.
A tablet that could natively run all PS4 library and most of the PS5 games (at 40fps say instead of 60fps with reduced resolution)? This would be a very compelling product.
LordOcidax
Member
People still believe that Sony is going back to support 2 devices? 3 counting the almost dead PSVR…
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
Remember the 3rd console curse? I don't think this will defy the expectation.
I'm of the opinion that the ps5 will get support all the way through the life of ps6.
I think tech improvements have slowed down that much, combined with the cost of game development, that it has guaranteed this.
Games are so scalable now that a handheld playstation should have no problems running cutdown versions of ps6 games.
I'm really excited for a PS handheld, the market is ready for them to re-enter I say.
nial
Member
No? Try >6 per year, at least since 2024.
Mephisto40
Member
Imagine if it cost less than a switch 2, just imagine
Buggy Loop
Member
By pulling quantum silicon fabs from another universe sure
What's the MSPR on Portal?
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loktaiextatus
Member
If you think not DESTROYING your competitor and outselling them is failure, then what did you think of the SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii U, Xbox 1, Xbox 360, Xbox one, Xbox series... etc.. .etc?
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nial
Member
Well, I don't think it's that impossible if it's in 2 years and a loss leader. I wouldn't bet on it, though.
By pulling quantum silicon fabs from another universe sure
It's using actual mobile hardware, not PS5 hardware being crammed into a mobile form-factor.
Buggy Loop
Member
Exceeding Switch 2 performances is not the problem. To do so you have to go to expensive TSMC nodes. $199 USD Portal near empty shell and too cheap to include bluetooth says that it would not underprice Switch 2.
nial
Member
Portal was a (relatively) niche accessory sold at profit from day one with no competition, not a good comparison.
Cyberpunkd
Member
The idea here is it will take little to no effort to have a scaled down version of a game available on PS5, otherwise I agree - it won't work, even Nintendo couldn't manage it.
LordOcidax
Member
For this to work Sony have to take the hybrid path to avoid an Xbox Series X/Series S situation and Sony knows very well their fans, so… is not going to happen.
Perrott
Member
How many UDNA CUs and what kind of CPU and memory configuration would you expect this PS6 Portable to feature by the time it debuts two to three years from now based on the kind of APU designs AMD is investing in over the coming years?
PSP is a lock, looking at how that library is part of the PS Plus Premium tier, and I count on PS3 getting it's own emulator sometime in the future too.
In the case of Vita, I don't see the point in any sort of emulation project of it. Most of it's notable titles (Gravity Rush, Persona 4, Tearaway, Wipeout 2048, etc) have already been ported to PS4, and those that haven't (Soul Sacrifice for instance) will probably be brought back in remastered form eventually, just look at how Sony has let Bandai Namco license out Freedom Wars, Everybody's Golf and Patapon.
Perrott
Member
This upcoming PlayStation handheld will literally be their main console, just like the PS5 is their main console and the PS5 Pro too.
That's the point of building these things as part of an unified ecosystem. The home console PS6 will also be "their main console" and part of this family, simply taking the place of PS5 Pro as the most premium offering due to the upcoming shift of console generations into a state of perpetual cross-gen, going into the 2030s.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
The problem with the XSS was not the idea of it but the execution of it.
It's so interesting to me that people seem to struggle with that.
It would be like saying the 3DO failed, so no one else should make a console with an optical drive. First, the XSS probably represents half the installbase for the XBS. Second, the problem for XSS is that they shortchanged the memory. If it delivered on its promise of the XSX but lower resolution, then it would have been a more easily managed product.
Want evidence of how that should work?
PS5 and PS5 Pro.
The Series S's main problem is that it has significantly less memory than the PS5 which is the lead system many games are designed around.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Once Sony does this, people will be like oh... obviously...
I don't understand why people don't get that the games are going to run across an ecosystem.
The only actual question is going to be whether they give you dual entitlements, which I think they will.
LordOcidax
Member
Having a new PS6 and a Portable PS6, the power difference is going to be bigger than the Series X/Series S, especially using AMD. Like i said, the only way to avoid that is with the Hybrid concept or having two teams like the PSP/Vita era, theres not other way around.
Perrott
Member
I'd guess so too. There'd be no reason for them to not do it, since the whole point of the handheld would be to further engage current PS users into the ecosystem, just like the PS Portal has managed to do in it's own way so far and, much more likely, like how the Steam Deck has managed to get Steam users to double down on their investments into their Steam libraries rather than getting the same indie on, say, the Switch for portable play.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I could play devil's advocate here that some exec could probably think that you could increase revenue more by either separating the entitlements or charging extra for dual entitlements.
Like if the PS6 version of the game is 80 dollars and the PS6 Portable/PS6 TV version is 60, and dual entitlement is 90 dollars.
Not suggesting this is a good idea, but I could see them potentially doing something like that.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
The power difference doesn't really matter.
The PS4 isn't a hybrid.
Consider that the PS4 runs God of War Ragnarok and so does the PS5 Pro. The exact same game.
The game runs at 1080p30 on the PS4 and on the PS5 Pro it runs at 4K60+
This is no different here. The PS6 Portable will be more powerful than a PS4 and even a PS4 Pro.
LordOcidax
Member
I understand what you said, in theory that should would great but in the real world doesn't work that easy, consoles are closed systems and need dedicated work to squeeze all the power available… especially for a handheld system and that translates into more expenses for the devs, also they are going to have the lower denominator factor for games designs… the model you are explaining fit perfectly with the hybrid concept, not two separated systems. And i doubt that Sony is going to follow the Nintendo route.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
It won't be separated systems anymore than the XSS and XSX are separated systems.
LordOcidax
Member
That's the issue here, the XSS needs extra work from the devs, so… in practice they are two different systems… A Handheld is going to make everything worse because the power difference.
Deerock71
Member
This was the stealthy reason why Shuhei Yoshida was so closet pissed off at Nintendo; Nintendo trumped them at every power point a handheld gamer could possibly want (1080p, 120fps, VRR). He sees the fact they're going to have to pull a Vita 2, in terms of power, out of a hat. I know he's a former executive, but I'm sure he advises. Come on, Sony! Jump in head first with dat OLED 4K 10" screen!
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Like I've said, that comes down to the combination of how the XSS was designed and the fact that it isn't the base system games are designed around.
If the Series S had the same memory as the XSX it wouldn't be a problem at all. If the XBS was the base system games were designed around, it also wouldn't have that problem.
The PS6 Portable will be the base system in which games are designed. The PS6 will be essentially the pro model of that and the PS6 Pro will be the mid gen refresh per usual. The architecture for the PS6 handheld will be built around scalability.
Why does God of War Ragnarok play fine on PS4? Because PS4 was the base system it was developed for. It only runs at 1080p30.
The PS6 Portable will be closer in architecture to the PS6 than the PS4 is to the PS5/Pro (and that has nothing to do with the power difference), but rather the same programming language and APIs. The difference will be flags for resolution and framerate, which will be aided by disabling things like RTGI and RTX and Path tracing that you'll find on the PS6/Pro.
You're stuck thinking along the lines of the Switch and the XSS.
LordOcidax
Member
If the PS6 is going to use cutting edge technology you're not going to have the same tech for a handheld, especially AMD… You are describing a scenario that doesn't exist. Even the memory modules are going to be different, the SoC etc etc etc (Basically two different system)… And on top of that, you need to have the price of the device into consideration.
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Modern game engines are very scalable, look at how modern games are still working on steam deck, and that's on pc.
Ps6 handheld and home console will share API, similar CPU id imagine, similar amount of RAM, fast storage.
Only thing drastically different will be GPU and AI.
Just like how the Xbox series works, the resolution and framersate will change between models.
Plus I still think ps5 will still be getting support
asdasdasdbb
Member
I'd even go so far to say that the PS5 will continue to be sold well past the PS6's launch.
Unfortunately generations are over. The PS6 is basically going to be what the PS5 Pro should have been. It's not going to be a massive leap.
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LordOcidax
Member
You can't have a cutting edge piece of hardware like the Ps6 and the same tech for a handheld at the same time, unless Sony price the PS6 portable more expensive than the console…
If the ps6 has an 8 core CPU and 20GB of ram, you don't think the handheld could do say 4cores and 16GB of ram?
Like I say, they would share the same API, same architecture.
Games would just scale, like they do now for other systems
Kagoshima_Luke
Member
Because streaming sucks.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
No one said that the PS6 won't use cutting edge technology and the two SOCs are being built in tandem.
The PS5 Pro uses cutting edge technology not present in the PS5, it doesn't mean games aren't designed for the PS5 or are even cross gen with the PS4. The PS4 games running natively on PS5 also run superbly on PS5 Pro and they don't share the same design architecture.
You're going to be wrong on this and it's going to be obiovus when it happens and you're going to act like you never said this.
Like I said, it'll be a handheld around 500 dollars, compared to the Switch which is 350 dollar kit sold evenly or for profit. This means Sony can build a 550-600 dollar PS Portable and sell it for 500 based on their own practices.
That's significantly more advanced than the Steam Deck and Switch 2.
Sharing a platform with PS6 means the economies of scale are massive here, not only in hardware production but also software development.
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