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DOTA 2 |OT8| DOTA Asian Championship (1/27-2/9)

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L

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
This TI3 final commentary from Bulldog is PRICELESS. P R I C E L E S S
 
B

bbd23

Member
oh man come back games are why I love doto.

getting that crucial item to win the game oh man
happytears.gif
 
S

SneakyStephan

Banned
Razzer said:
I'm just gonna say how I'd lane it as a way of thinking out loud.

Firstly, it's fair to say your right click is poor outside of silencer if he gets a great game. So you should focus on trying to win mid game. I'd put Phoenix mid, where he will likely be against Tinker, and if done right should be able to deny him loads thanks to spirits. Delaying his BoTs is very important, so the bird man should just concentrate on that. I would expect them to put centaur off and ogre undying clinkz tri safe, but it could also be dual off. In either case, SD is an excellent zoner, so have him do that whilst tusk pulls and silencer farms. Silencer can also help zone whenever they get too close cus he has glaives and curse, neither of which draw aggro. Dark seer goes off, and can rotate to jungle if needs be.

I don't see you being able to get ambitious kills early, but I also think they shouldn't be able to kill you, thanks to disruption and snowball.

DS get mek, Phoenix get pipe, silencer go aghs, maybe get a Midas first. Once you have the mek and pipe tho, group and push. They should not be able to fight into global, mek, pipe and two excellent defensive spells.

A couple of you should also get forcestaffs. This could be anyone but silencer (who needs aghs refresher ASAP IMO) tbh. SD and Tusk should always be near your farmers, so if clinkz ever tries to get a solo pickoff between your pushes, you disrupt him and walk away, or snowball, then wait for reinforcements. Similar if centaur jumps you.

As the game goes on, keep investing in more defensive items, more forcestaffs, shivas on DS or Phoenix, maybe a ghost sceptre or two. BKBs as well if needed. Because your team really doesn't build damage you should have the money and slots for these team items. Breaching high ground will be tough, but as long as you don't let clinkz get fat I don't see them being able to kill your pipe mek creep waves very fast, so just slowly grind away at them, don't let them farm.

I realise you already finished by now, but I just wanted to indulge myself to practice my theorising.
Click to expand...

How are they gona push with such shitty pushing heroes into march spam, and meanwhile clinkz is splitpushing faster than the other team combined is.
 
R

Razzer

Member
SneakyStephan said:
How are they gona push with such shitty pushing heroes into march spam, and meanwhile clinkz is splitpushing faster than the other team combined is.
Click to expand...

Pipe mitigates march damage now, add in mek and March ain't doing shit. Its true they don't push fast, but I don't see them doing anything split up, so they have to group. Siege siege siege.
 
S

SneakyStephan

Banned
Razzer said:
Pipe mitigates march damage now, add in mek and March ain't doing shit. Its true they don't push fast, but I don't see them doing anything split up, so they have to group. Siege siege siege.
Click to expand...

So you blow pipe and mek to hit the tower inside march, what stops them from starting the teamfight after that?

edit: rofl @navi became my vacuum cleaner

Monochromaticx said:
50% TAX?!?
Click to expand...

And it all gets wasted on nonsense like health care, free education, maternity leave, free child care etc too!
 
I

inkls

Member
watching that game with bulldog commentary:

1) Na'vi threw so hard. Wth xboct?

2) They played so passively vs splitpush

3) Nice insight from him on how alliance was thinking during that game.

4) Based S4
 
R

Razzer

Member
SneakyStephan said:
So you blow pipe and mek to hit the tower inside march, what stops them from starting the teamfight after that?

edit: rofl @navi became my vacuum cleaner



And it all gets wasted on nonsense like health care, free education, maternity leave, free child care etc too!
Click to expand...

Pipe lasts 12 seconds. That's a lot of time. At the end of the day I see it as the lesser of several evils. No matter what you do (besides mass necros) that team is never gonna have good tower push. And if they split then Clinkz and Tinker will tear them apart. They have to take advantage of their strong teamfight spells. Smoking into a pickoff or getting rosh before a big pus will obviously help.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
inkls said:
watching that game with bulldog commentary:

1) Na'vi threw so hard. Wth xboct?

2) They played so passively vs splitpush

3) Nice insight from him on how alliance was thinking during that game.

4) Based S4
Click to expand...

After looking at it, Dendi did the throwing. Dropping TP and keeping wand. Not just TPing to fountain and giving opportunity for the million dollar dream coil. Both critical base defenses, he wasn't there when they needed him to be there. What good is a 100-megaton nuclear weapon if it can't be where you need it when you need it there to blow shit the fuck up?

He farmed so well, but Dota so often comes down to the little things. Xbox was given the shittiest lane possible in Game 5 (alchie vs aggressive tri) and managed to break even/win the lane. Funn1k also fucked up a few times. Then again, everyone was stumbling over themselves towards the end. Everyone tried their best, but yea...the little things like understanding what Alliance wanted to do and making sure you had the tools necessary to counter it.
 
R

Razzer

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
After looking at it, Dendi did the throwing. Dropping TP and keeping wand. Not just TPing to fountain and giving opportunity for the million dollar dream coil. Both critical base defenses, he wasn't there when they needed him to be there. What good is a 100-megaton nuclear weapon if it can't be where you need it when you need it there to blow shit the fuck up?

He farmed so well, but Dota so often comes down to the little things. Xbox was given the shittiest lane possible in Game 5 (alchie vs aggressive tri) and managed to break even/win the lane. Funn1k also fucked up a few times. Then again, everyone was stumbling over themselves towards the end. Everyone tried their best, but yea...the little things like understanding what Alliance wanted to do and making sure you had the tools necessary to counter it.
Click to expand...

There were a lot of crucial moments in that game that basically came down to 'I'M PANICKING!'
 
I

inkls

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
After looking at it, Dendi did the throwing. Dropping TP and keeping wand. Not just TPing to fountain and giving opportunity for the million dollar dream coil. Both critical base defenses, he wasn't there when they needed him to be there. What good is a 100-megaton nuclear weapon if it can't be where you need it when you need it there to blow shit the fuck up?

He farmed so well, but Dota so often comes down to the little things. Xbox was given the shittiest lane possible in Game 5 (alchie vs aggressive tri) and managed to break even/win the lane. Funn1k also fucked up a few times. Then again, everyone was stumbling over themselves towards the end. Everyone tried their best, but yea...the little things like understanding what Alliance wanted to do and making sure you had the tools necessary to counter it.
Click to expand...

Didn't bulldog also say that dendi told his team this? His team was aware of this and didn't really react. On Xboct, getting given the shittiest lane doesn't excuse his plays during that game like when they smoked and he was leading his team instead of batrider which prevented them from getting that kill vs furion. When he ditched funn1k top when they were about to go on bulldog which resulted in bulldog killing funn1k and getting raxes.

Overall yeah, they all did their bit to throw this.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Razzer said:
I'm just gonna say how I'd lane it as a way of thinking out loud.

Firstly, it's fair to say your right click is poor outside of silencer if he gets a great game. So you should focus on trying to win mid game. I'd put Phoenix mid, where he will likely be against Tinker, and if done right should be able to deny him loads thanks to spirits. Delaying his BoTs is very important, so the bird man should just concentrate on that. I would expect them to put centaur off and ogre undying clinkz tri safe, but it could also be dual off. In either case, SD is an excellent zoner, so have him do that whilst tusk pulls and silencer farms. Silencer can also help zone whenever they get too close cus he has glaives and curse, neither of which draw aggro. Dark seer goes off, and can rotate to jungle if needs be.

I don't see you being able to get ambitious kills early, but I also think they shouldn't be able to kill you, thanks to disruption and snowball.

DS get mek, Phoenix get pipe, silencer go aghs, maybe get a Midas first. Once you have the mek and pipe tho, group and push. They should not be able to fight into global, mek, pipe and two excellent defensive spells.

A couple of you should also get forcestaffs. This could be anyone but silencer (who needs aghs refresher ASAP IMO) tbh. SD and Tusk should always be near your farmers, so if clinkz ever tries to get a solo pickoff between your pushes, you disrupt him and walk away, or snowball, then wait for reinforcements. Similar if centaur jumps you.

As the game goes on, keep investing in more defensive items, more forcestaffs, shivas on DS or Phoenix, maybe a ghost sceptre or two. BKBs as well if needed. Because your team really doesn't build damage you should have the money and slots for these team items. Breaching high ground will be tough, but as long as you don't let clinkz get fat I don't see them being able to kill your pipe mek creep waves very fast, so just slowly grind away at them, don't let them farm.

I realise you already finished by now, but I just wanted to indulge myself to practice my theorising.
Click to expand...

we won and i have absolutely no idea how. they fed silencer a lot tho. by the end of the game he could like 3-hit tinker.

i did end up with mek and pipe though.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
inkls said:
Didn't bulldog also say that dendi told his team this? His team was aware of this and didn't really react. On Xboct, getting given the shittiest lane doesn't excuse his plays during that game like when they smoked and he was leading his team instead of batrider which prevented them from getting that kill vs furion. When he ditched funn1k top when they were about to go on bulldog which resulted in bulldog killing funn1k and getting raxes.

Overall yeah, they all did their bit to throw this.
Click to expand...
Dunno if Dendi told his team that or not. We'd have to hear it from Dendi. Dong may be misremembering for all we know. Even if he did, once he saw the team/Puppy make the call to push, should have gone back to get it if he actually feared/respected the potential split push. Fuck not having a tp scroll vs that lineup. It's unthinkable. And yea, Xbox (4) did fuck up that one gank...but it's 1 gank (actually he fucks up regularly, but we expect that). That didn't determine the outcome. Not having your bazooka at base defenses determined the outcome. I love me some Dendi as much as the next guy, but he fucked up when they needed him by not making sure he was there even if no one else was. And he let it happen twice.

Razzer said:
There were a lot of crucial moments in that game that basically came down to 'I'M PANICKING!'
Click to expand...

indeed. $1,000,000 does that to mortal men.
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
Bulldog said "and i know he told his team that he dropped it"

im sure hes talked to various members of navi about specifics of those games through the years now
godelsmetric said:
we won and i have absolutely no idea how. they fed silencer a lot tho. by the end of the game he could like 3-hit tinker.

i did end up with mek and pipe though.
Click to expand...
ar best mode
 
A

Anno

Member
Dendi confirmed on his stream like 10 minutes ago that he said not to push afterwards. So yeah plenty of throws to go around along with the crazy big plays. S4 came within about an inch of dying and not being able to cancel those TPs.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Anno said:
Dendi confirmed on his stream like 10 minutes ago that he said not to push afterwards.
Click to expand...
but they did push. he should have carried his ass back into that rosh pit and picked up that tp scroll.

based on his positioning, he would have gotten dream coiled anyway and got it cancelled so it really doesn't matter. they just got outplayed there. but the second dream coil can't happen.
 
D

DoT2

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
After looking at it, Dendi did the throwing. Dropping TP and keeping wand. Not just TPing to fountain and giving opportunity for the million dollar dream coil. Both critical base defenses, he wasn't there when they needed him to be there. What good is a 100-megaton nuclear weapon if it can't be where you need it when you need it there to blow shit the fuck up?

He farmed so well, but Dota so often comes down to the little things. Xbox was given the shittiest lane possible in Game 5 (alchie vs aggressive tri) and managed to break even/win the lane. Funn1k also fucked up a few times. Then again, everyone was stumbling over themselves towards the end. Everyone tried their best, but yea...the little things like understanding what Alliance wanted to do and making sure you had the tools necessary to counter it.
Click to expand...
Dat million dollar pressure.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Are we debating about the TI3 final now?!

Also, I apologize for the rage the last few days. It's been some rough days in Dota, coupled with the stresses of real life.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I'm excited for TI4. I hope the finals are as intense as Alliance vs Navi at TI3.

Alliance is also looking really strong maybe they'll win again???

The Eastern teams seem pretty bad right now I wonder if the hegemony of China over the dorts ends here.

By the way Cancer Lancer is totally overpowered and Icefraud should nerf him ( ≧Д≦)
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Haly said:
I'm excited for TI4. I hope the finals are as intense as Alliance vs Navi at TI3.

Alliance is also looking really strong maybe they'll win again???

The Eastern teams seem pretty bad right now I wonder if the hegemony of China over the dorts ends here.
Click to expand...

I wonder when Phoenix will come out so Milk will do IHL2.
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
Hylian7 said:
Are we debating about the TI3 final now?!

Also, I apologize for the rage the last few days. It's been some rough days in Dota, coupled with the stresses of real life.
Click to expand...

Bulldog gave commentary on the final, it'll eventually show up somewhere on Youtube.

and don't worry about the latter.
 
Heavy's Sandvich

Heavy's Sandvich

Member
I decided to announce my retirement from mobas for the foreseeable future.

My recent behaviour has been unacceptable and so I think it is best that I devote my energies playing something else.

Fret not, I shall continue to post illuminating opinions in the thread.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
beating try-hards is quite satisfying. guy on our team randoms huskar. their response:

PA
Jugg
BH
SB
Silencer

I wasn't gonna let him feed so I picked Dazzle last. Even with that lineup they still got bodied. try harder chumps. And with that comp they had the NERVE to catch feelings about me picking Dazzle. Fuck outta my face.
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
beating try-hards is quite satisfying. guy on our team randoms huskar. their response:

PA
Jugg
BH
SB
Silencer

I wasn't gonna let him feed so I picked Dazzle last. Even with that lineup they still got bodied. try harder chumps. And with that comp they had the NERVE to catch feelings about me picking Dazzle. Fuck outta my face.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of a game Draskyl played in which he picked Ember. Guy picks Meepo after he picks Ember, then at the end whines "BALANCED HERO" after he got one shot with triple BF SoF.

Counterpickers lose their right to whine at counterpickers.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
I have no idea how we could have won this game. The other team sat on me mid all day. Sure, I got plenty of kills from it, but Troll was freefarming and I couldn't do anything about it.

On top of that my cat decided to go nuts this match and knock shit over all match or hit keys on my keyboard.

I don't know why I can't gain any solo MMR lately. This is ridiculous.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1140936317
 
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