Support NeoGAF

[Sianos]

Based off of my personal experience, my theory is that this kind of tonal disdain stems from racist people who get frequently called out for their racism, only they don't think that what they say is racist. So instead of understanding it, they internalize it as "everything I say is racist!" And so by feeling unfairly judged, even when discussing the simplest and vaguest references to race, they self-police their own words but feel disgusted that they're forced to do it, so it bubbles up and seeps through their tonal delivery.

That's an interesting explanation, well said!

 

[kirblar]

I don't think this is correct.

The US manages being a monetary union by also being a fiscal union. Louisiana's budget isn't really balanced because it actually receives a bunch of subsidies from the federal government, which gets the money to send it from California and New York.

The United States is actually a huge transfer program from blue states and urban areas to red states and rural areas. In exchange for all the money we get to make them marry gay people and let all their intelligent kids move to the blue states.

In the EU, this would look like Germany and the UK paying large EU taxes which would go to ongoing support payments for Italy/Greece/Spain et al.

That's in addition to the monetary policy issues, not in place of them.

Not being able to control your currency is not viable for a sovereign nation.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The left got the most full throated liberal platform ever (probably farther left than McGovern) and they're still bitching they didn't get a meaningless anti Israel plank and fracking ban

 

[Suikoguy]

The left got the most full throated liberal platform ever (probably farther left than McGovern) and they're still bitching they didn't get a meaningless anti Israel plank and fracking ban

I think some of it was the expectation that Clinton would moderate her positions after the primary. Us poli-experts knew that to probably not happen. But my brother who was a big Sanders supporter was surprised that has not happened.

I wonder how many people will come around when they continue to see that Hillary's message is overall very similar to Bernie's; just not from an idealist perspective.

 

[sdijoseph]

National Poll: Clinton 44.9 Trump 37 (+7.9 Clinton)
Florida GE: Clinton 50.1 Trump 35.3 (+14.8 Clinton)

http://polls.saintleo.edu/clinton-so-far-the-preference-in-national-polling-results/

This pollster has a C rating from 538, based on a single poll of the 2014 FL governor's race in which they over favored the democratic candidate by +4.1. However, the poll they did for the 2016 florida democratic primary was only off by 1.3%. So, take that for what it's worth.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

I'm in Mexico City rn and I'm sick of my american friends asking me if I've seen cartel violence. Reminds me when Santorum had the nerve to criticize Malia going to Oaxaca.

All of the top tourist spots in Mexico have lower crime rates than a lot of American cities.

I've been planning a DF trip for months! Where are you going? show us pics!

 

[Avon Barksdale]

SMH at Michael Steele trying to cape for Trump on Real Time.

 

[kess]

The Guardian commentariat is almost as nuts as Free Republic, lol. Corbyn is ready and willing to cede the center.

 

[Makai]

‏@MrChuckMartin This is the first time anyone has ever noticed George Will has left a party. #GOP

 

[itschris]

My brand new Bernie Sanders ONESIE! This fight isn't fucking over!

 

[Maledict]

I don't think this is correct.

The US manages being a monetary union by also being a fiscal union. Louisiana's budget isn't really balanced because it actually receives a bunch of subsidies from the federal government, which gets the money to send it from California and New York.

The United States is actually a huge transfer program from blue states and urban areas to red states and rural areas. In exchange for all the money we get to make them marry gay people and let all their intelligent kids move to the blue states.

In the EU, this would look like Germany and the UK paying large EU taxes which would go to ongoing support payments for Italy/Greece/Spain et al.

This is what happens already though. The UK, Germany, France and Italy are all net contributors to the EU budget, whilst countries like Poland receive more than they put in in return. (In fact the numbers are so small that there's a good argument for them to be much higher - imagine if each states contribution to the federal budget was less than 1% of their budget).

The issue is political union being seperate from monetary union - although even then I think that is overblown. The USA takes decisions every day which are contrary to what would be best for some states. Having its own, independent currency that could float and bar much weaker than the dollar would help some of the ultra poor southern states build up their exports for example.

 

[Random17]

Call me skeptical, but do the lower <40 numbers for Trump be kind of like a shy Tory effect?

 

[johnsmith]

My brand new Bernie Sanders ONESIE! This fight isn't fucking over!

Only the 2nd most ridiculous thing on S4P today

https://m.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4pvfr3/support_alan_grayson/

 

[studyguy]

I'm in Mexico City rn and I'm sick of my american friends asking me if I've seen cartel violence. Reminds me when Santorum had the nerve to criticize Malia going to Oaxaca.

All of the top tourist spots in Mexico have lower crime rates than a lot of American cities.

Took my girlfriend to cancun two years ago and she was terrified despite more white tourists being there than Mexicans. Like come on.

Then we went to Queretaro to see my family and ended up getting shitfaced in clubs with my cousins every night. Like here we are stumbling out of a club in the middle of nowhere at 3AM without a care and not a week prior she was too nervous to head into the port town of a tourist trap.

 

[User 463088]

My brand new Bernie Sanders ONESIE! This fight isn't fucking over!

I mean....

I didn't consider ordering something like that with Hillary's face on it or anything....because, that would be absurd.

: cough :

 

[itschris]

I mean....

I didn't consider ordering something like that with Hillary's face on it or anything....because, that would be absurd.

: cough :

Haha. You could be just like Perez Hilton!

 

[Subtle]

FRAUUUD

 

[User 463088]

Haha. You could be just like Perez Hilton!

"Be just like Perez Hilton" is a life goal I've never set for myself.

 

[BanGy.nz]

Judicial Watch are advertising? I didn't know they did anything other then file neusence lawsuits against Obama and the Clintons.

 

[thepotatoman]

Judicial Watch are advertising? I didn't know they did anything other then file neusence lawsuits against Obama and the Clintons.

They've been advertising like crazy here.

It's really surreal that I've seen a billion right wing ads for the supreme court vacancy and anti-Garland, but barely anything for senate or Trump thus far in Colorado.

They really don't want a liberal justice, but don't have anyone to back to actually make that happen.

 

[TI82]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/hillary-clinton-most-googled-question/2016/06/25/id/735636/

 

[CCS]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/hillary-clinton-most-googled-question/2016/06/25/id/735636/

1) No

2) The one with all the gays

3) Yes

4) Because you're racist and/or a very special snowflake

5) In the most half-hearted and bitter way possible

 

[kirblar]

Call me skeptical, but do the lower <40 numbers for Trump be kind of like a shy Tory effect?

Unlikely, given the schism in the GOP.

 

[User 463088]

1) No

2) The one with all the gays

3) Yes

4) Because you're racist and/or a very special snowflake

5) In the most half-hearted and bitter way possible

Hahahaha. This made me laugh way too hard and I managed to wake someone up lol Mess.

 

[perfectchaos007]

this one would be funnier

Nebraska and Maine shouldn't be allowed to split their electoral if the other 48 states aren't allowed to

 

[User 463088]

Nebraska and Maine shouldn't be allowed to split their electoral if the other 48 states aren't allowed to

Technically, they're allowed to if the state passes a law saying that's how they're going to divide it up. I prefer that they go winner take all, but I doubt it'll ever swing the election one way or another.

 

[itschris]

Technically, they're allowed to if the state passes a law saying that's how they're going to divide it up. I prefer that they go winner take all, but I doubt it'll ever swing the election one way or another.

Yeah, it sounds nice in theory to split the votes by district so it's not entirely winner-take-all, but going by congressional district is just a bad idea. It opens up the possibility of gerrymandering the presidency. You could have a state like Pennsylvania (currently heavily gerrymandered to favour the GOP) give a large majority of its electoral votes to the Republican candidate even if the Democratic candidate won more votes statewide.

 

[Suikoguy]

Reading that thread on Corbyn, I could easily take several of those posts and replace the Corbyn with Sanders and the posts would be straight out of this thread.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Reading that thread on Corbyn, I could easily take several of those posts and replace the Corbyn with Sanders and the posts would be straight out of this thread.

Corbyn should be seen as a warning of what electing incompetent purity test lefties does.

 

[Maledict]

Reading that thread on Corbyn, I could easily take several of those posts and replace the Corbyn with Sanders and the posts would be straight out of this thread.

Absolutely - a lot of us British posters were worried about Sander's for exactly the same reason. Similar motives, age, methods *and* voting base - Young Whitt middle class liberals. Labour chooses its leader in one big vote however rather than a primary process, and we didn't have any candidates near the calibre of Hillary to stop this fiasco happening.

Take Corbyn as an warning - he has been a complete failure of a leader in every respect, and Labour are looking at a decade of being out of power thanks to him.

 

[eBay Huckster]

or, rather, you didn't have any candidates near that calibre who actually wanted the job

 

[HylianTom]

One year ago today:

My, how time flies..

 

[User 463088]

One year ago today:

My, how time flies..

Not going to lie. Seeing the white house like that made me cry my eyes off. I couldn't freaking BELIEVE it. It was just...I never, ever thought something like that would happen. It just....still gets me. hahahah.

 

[Pixieking]

Absolutely - a lot of us British posters were worried about Sander's for exactly the same reason. Similar motives, age, methods *and* voting base - Young Whitt middle class liberals. Labour chooses its leader in one big vote however rather than a primary process, and we didn't have any candidates near the calibre of Hillary to stop this fiasco happening.

Take Corbyn as an warning - he has been a complete failure of a leader in every respect, and Labour are looking at a decade of being out of power thanks to him.

https://twitter.com/TheAuracl3/status/746997979215761408

I don't think that's a failure. Now, you can argue he wouldn't be a good Prime Minister, but a failure as an Opposition Leader? I don't see that. I think Labour eating itself everytime it could take advantage of the government's incompetence is actually similar to the GOP being stymied everytime Trump says something foolish.

 

[Maledict]

That list is both incorrect and also trivial. Seriously, if that's your list of accomplishments woop do fucking do - it's no wonder we're about to get wiped out in the next general election. It also fails to understand in any way why we need a new leader - he is utterly failing at the job of getting a Labour Party majority in parliament, which fundamentally *is* the job. If you aren't in government, you don't get to do jack shit in our system - which is precisely how a government with a majority of only 12 managed to do so much.

(Hell, David Davis has been more effective in opposition than Corbyn - and to claim Corbyn stopped the welfare cuts is laughably incorrect and a complete misunderstanding of what happened. The Tory party backbenchers stopped the welfare cuts...).

 

[Rebel Leader]

BELIEVE IN THIS MAP

Hell no.

That's a Trump president map

 

[Pixieking]

That list is both incorrect and also trivial. Seriously, if that's your list of accomplishments woop do fucking do - it's no wonder we're about to get wiped out in the next general election. It also fails to understand in any way why we need a new leader - he is utterly failing at the job of getting a Labour Party majority in parliament, which fundamentally *is* the job,

Well, if you're going to say the list is "trivial", then I don't get what you want from an Opposition Leader? You can only defeat what you/the party doesn't believe in when it comes up for a vote.

And it's a laughable thing to say that he's failing to get a Labour Party majority in government, when we haven't had a General Election since Corbyn became leader. Complain about council elections turn-out, sure that's valid, but what do you expect him to do about Parliament? Force Lib Dem and Conservative MPs to resign in order to get more by-elections?

Anyways, I don't want to de-rail the US-oriented politics thread - as I said above, I think it's an interesting parallel Corbyn/Labour & GOP/Trump, which was my main reason for posting.

 

[Maledict]

Well, if you're going to say the list is "trivial", then I don't get what you want from an Opposition Leader? You can only defeat what you/the party doesn't believe in when it comes up for a vote.

And it's a laughable thing to say that he's failing to get a Labour Party majority in government, when we haven't had a General Election since Corbyn became leader. Complain about council elections turn-out, sure that's valid, but what do you expect him to do about Parliament? Force Lib Dem and Conservative MPs to resign in order to get more by-elections?

Anyways, I don't want to de-rail the US-oriented politics thread - as I said above, I think it's an interesting parallel Corbyn/Labour & GOP/Trump, which was my main reason for posting.

I was in politics during the 92 to 97 period. *That* was how an opposition wins a general election and gets back into power. It's not about defeating votes in the house. It's about dominating the message and selling a forceful, powerful alternate vision that gets people interested, active and voting. It's about popular policies and showing you are fit to be in charge.

 

[kirblar]

All 3 of your political party leaders are spineless worms.

It's brutal.

 

[Maledict]

All 3 of your political party leaders are spineless worms.

It's brutal.

To be fair to Tim Farron, he's doing the right thing right now for the lib deems - the party will officially stand on an pro-EU platform and vote against it in the house. If they somehow capitalise on this in the fight way, there's 16 millions votes up for grabs there whilst the Tories and labour fight over the 17 million leave votes. Not that I think it will happen but there you go.

And the SNP are the third largest party any ways, and no-one would describe Nicola Sturgeon as spineless from any side of the political spectrum... ;-)

 

[Pixieking]

I was in politics during the 92 to 97 period. *That* was how an opposition wins a general election and gets back into power. It's not about defeating votes in the house. It's about dominating the message and selling a forceful, powerful alternate vision that gets people interested, active and voting. It's about popular policies and showing you are fit to be in charge.

And how do you do that, when backbenchers are plotting coup every other week? Look at today: "Corbyn didn't do enough to help the Remain campaign". Well, what was he supposed to do? Get on stage with someone who called him a danger to UK security? An exit poll put the number of Labour voters who voted Leave as almost the same as SNP - 37%, so he must've done something.

Also "It's not about defeating votes in the house" - for a lot of people, it is about this. An effective Opposition has a lot of power. To bring it back to the US again, look at how Republicans have controlled policy with Obama in charge, and how they need to keep the Senate in play.

All 3 of your political party leaders are spineless worms.

It's brutal.

Nicola Sturgeon for Queen! (youtube link)

 

[User 463088]

I don't always agree with her but I respect what Nicola Sturgeon has been doing after Brexit.'

There's this YouTube Channel that uploads news broadcasts. They have a few parts of election coverage from 1964.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFvnB9pi3Jg

It's pretty cool to watch.

 

[Maledict]

I don't always agree with her but I respect what Nicola Sturgeon has been doing after Brexit.

Yes - although to be fair, it's easy to stand up for your beliefs when you have everyone behind you. The issue labour faces right now are literally catastrophic and game changing :

1) stand up for your beliefs as a pro-EU party, and lose your northern working class voting base, possibly forever?

2) ignore your beliefs, take the UK out of Europe despite knowing it's insane, and potentially lose your liberal middle class voters?

The labour coalition is fraying faster than the Tories all of a sudden, and Corbyn can hold himself responsible for that. It's nothing to do with the blairites, he's just lost the white working class vote in a way that even Ed Miliband didn't manage.

 

[HylianTom]

Hillary's team already has an ad out about Trump's response to Brexit, defining him early as unfit for the office. If that image is baked-in before he can get cash to respond.. lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET6ml9Ds70Q

I know we've said it before, but.. damn, they're quick.

 

[User 463088]

Yes - although to be fair, it's easy to stand up for your beliefs when you have everyone behind you. The issue labour faces right now are literally catastrophic and game changing :

1) stand up for your beliefs as a pro-EU party, and lose your northern working class voting base, possibly forever?

2) ignore your beliefs, take the UK out of Europe despite knowing it's insane, and potentially lose your liberal middle class voters?

The labour coalition is fraying faster than the Tories all of a sudden, and Corbyn can hold himself responsible for that. It's nothing to do with the blairites, he's just lost the white working class vote in a way that even Ed Miliband didn't manage.

The biggest threat, I think, is the very real probability that Scotland is going to push for another independence referendum. That's, quite literally, Labour done. I mean, even if Scotland would stay, I think the best they can hope for in the near future is a coalition with SNP, unless Labour can retake some seats in Scotland. I don't see that happening.

But, ya, I don't know what Labour does about this. I feel like Corbyn is probably shit at both possible options, but he's maybe better positioned to throw Northern voters under the bus. The whole thing is a mess. Sad. Etc.

 

[Frank the Great]

Nicola Sturgeon for Queen! (youtube link)

This lady seems awesome. Is it really true that she could basically block Brexit using Scottish votes in the parliament? I no understand British politics.

 

[User 463088]

This lady seems awesome. Is it really true that she could basically block Brexit using Scottish votes in the parliament? I no understand British politics.

I don't know that the UK Parliament is going to agree with her reasoning, but I like her gumption.

 

[Maledict]

The biggest threat, I think, is the very real probability that Scotland is going to push for another independence referendum. That's, quite literally, Labour done. I mean, even if Scotland would stay, I think the best they can hope for in the near future is a coalition with SNP, unless Labour can retake some seats in Scotland. I don't see that happening.

But, ya, I don't know what Labour does about this. I feel like Corbyn is probably shit at both possible options, but he's maybe better positioned to throw Northern voters under the bus. The whole thing is a mess. Sad. Etc.

Labour can win without Scotland - Blair did in 97, 2001 and 2005. Scotland o lay has 56 MPs and Labour had a majority of well over a hundred in each election. So it is possible, but it requires a party platform that allows for aspiration and doesn't only talk about the bottom 10% or the top 10%.

The problem with Corbyn is that he thinks he is in touch with the northern working class base, and he isn't, at all. He's completely failed to understand that politics has changed since 1970, and that the white working class will happily vote for right wing parties, against their own interests. He still believes everyone else is wrong and that if he just explains it in the right way those voters will come back to the party.

This may sound familiar...

 

[Slayven]

Trevor Doiron isn't old enough to vote until late July. But when he does, he'll be voting for Hillary Clinton as one of the youngest national Democratic delegates this year.

 

[User 463088]

Labour can win without Scotland - Blair did in 97, 2001 and 2005. Scotland o lay has 56 MPs and Labour had a majority of well over a hundred in each election. So it is possible, but it requires a party platform that allows for aspiration and doesn't only talk about the bottom 10% or the top 10%.

The problem with Corbyn is that he thinks he is in touch with the northern working class base, and he isn't, at all. He's completely failed to understand that politics has changed since 1970, and that the white working class will happily vote for right wing parties, against their own interests. He still believes everyone else is wrong and that if he just explains it in the right way those voters will come back to the party.

This may sound familiar...

I have a tendency to overestimate the importance of Scotland. Since my ancestors were from there, perhaps it's a generic predisposition. The interesting thing is going to see if the Lib Dems can position themselves as the pro EU party. After 2010, though, I learned to not put my lot in with them.