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[Cesare Borgia]

Kaine has been through this process before, he knows what he's doing. I think a lot of VP candidates end up hurting themselves by trying to impress the presidential nominee, or trying to be something he or she isn't. My personal view is that Evan Byah screwed up in 08 by attempting to out-Obama Obama. He gave a very professional and business like spiel that didn't seem authentic, and seemed more like him trying to appeal to Obama's aides by reminding them of him (analytical, some might say aloof, serious, etc). Whereas the Byah most people were familiar with was the folksier, regular guy that people saw in Indiana and the senate. But that's not how he presented himself to Axelrod. In his memoir Axelrod does note that he saw a glimpse of the regular Byah later on during the process when he discussed his family, but it was likely too late at that point.

Whereas Joe Biden walked in and was Joe Biden. He didn't try to prove he could defer or be under control, he simply was himself - and if anyone didn't like it he didn't care. It worked obviously. This is essentially what Dick Cheney did as well.

Kaine could have easily tried (and failed) to fire up a crowd or give a passionate performance on a news show recently. Instead he's just being himself, and I assume he did the same during his VP presentation/interview. He'll do his job, he won't over shadow the presidential candidate (which btw can't be said of Warren) and will wait his turn.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Kaine has been through this process before, he knows what he's doing. I think a lot of VP candidates end up hurting themselves by trying to impress the presidential nominee, or trying to be something he or she isn't. My personal view is that Evan Byah screwed up in 08 by attempting to out-Obama Obama. He gave a very professional and business like spiel that didn't seem authentic, and seemed more like him trying to appeal to Obama's aides by reminding them of him (analytical, some might say aloof, serious, etc). Whereas the Byah most people were familiar with was the folksier, regular guy that people saw in Indiana and the senate. But that's not how he presented himself to Axelrod. In his memoir Axelrod does note that he saw a glimpse of the regular Byah later on during the process when he discussed his family, but it was likely too late at that point.

Whereas Joe Biden walked in and was Joe Biden. He didn't try to prove he could defer or be under control, he simply was himself - and if anyone didn't like it he didn't care. It worked obviously. This is essentially what Dick Cheney did as well.

Kaine could have easily tried (and failed) to fire up a crowd or give a passionate performance on a news show recently. Instead he's just being himself, and I assume he did the same during his VP presentation/interview. He'll do his job, he won't over shadow the presidential candidate (which btw can't be said of Warren) and will wait his turn.

Kaine will get bodied in 2024 if he decides to run. He stands no chance against Duckworth and the other contenders.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Its obvious that VP's from now on won't aspire to take their bosses job.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Its obvious that VP's from now on won't aspire to take their bosses job.

We've had two VPs since Al Gore was a VP for a president that beat a VP turned president. Gore won the popular vote as a presidential candidate.

n=2 is not too meaningful.

 

[User 463088]

That video Hillary's campaign made for Pride made me cry my eyes out. It was same sex couples getting married over excerpts of her gay rights are human rights speech. Fucking mess at the moment. Like, they showed the couples kissing and showing affection. As a gay kid, I never, ever got to see things like that. Even our allies loved to pretend that part of us didn't exist so has not to offend anyone. And here we have the nominee of our party celebrating that? Just absolutely amazing to me. Lord I'm a mess. Lol

 

[watershed]

Its obvious that VP's from now on won't aspire to take their bosses job.

That's only based on recent history where both VPs were chosen to shore up the presidential nominee's perceived lack of experience and therefore were on the older side. Hillary doesn't have that issue and Trump doesn't seem to care about that issue. So both could end up picking VPs with presidential aspirations. Cheney and Biden were both too old and both had other issues/baggage that ruled them out of a run. That hasn't always and won't always be the case.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

That's only based on recent history where both VPs were chosen to shore up the presidential nominee's perceived lack of experience and therefore were on the older side. Hillary doesn't have that issue and Trump doesn't seem to care about that issue. So both could end up picking VPs with presidential aspirations. Cheney and Biden were both too old and both had other issues/baggage that ruled them out of a run. That hasn't always and won't always be the case.

Agreed. Biden is a very ambitious man who would have run if not for his son's death. That being said he wasn't going to beat Hillary.

The VP trend I'm curious about is the expansion of the VP role under the last two presidents. Both Cheney and Biden had a lot of influence and got some things done. I remember reading somewhere that Bush and Cheney had a falling out during his second term, but Obama and Biden's relationship has improved year after year. Given how insular the Clinton camp is I wonder if a VP can make an impact. Gore's influence wasn't noteworthy for Bill, and I kinda think Hillary will take a similar approach.

 

[shinra-bansho]

He'll do his job, he won't over shadow the presidential candidate (which btw can't be said of Warren) and will wait his turn.

This is the weird thing I haven't really understood about Warrenmania as a result of her beefing up her public profile on the stump and getting into a Twitter war with Trump. Why would you want someone trying to outshine the actual candidate.

 

[Oblivion]

On Brown's seat, yes, it's too valuable. Portman appears to be going to win re-election (Strickland cannot get any traction going), so you can't afford to let Kasich appoint Jon Husted or Josh Mandel to that vacancy and give the Dems another seat to try and pick up elsewhere.

Portman's winning Ohio? Are you sure about that? Thought he was doing terrible?

This is the weird thing I haven't really understood about Warrenmania as a result of her beefing up her public profile on the stump and getting into a Twitter war with Trump. Why would you want someone trying to outshine the actual candidate.

Man, feels like that image was created just yesterday.

 

[Emarv]

Portman's winning Ohio? Are you sure about that? Thought he was doing terrible?

Man, feels like that image was created just yesterday.

Maybe it was? That's the GOP Dump Trump 2016 ticket ;P

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Time for a flashback to 2012!

Reverend Stephen Sizer posted a link from a website which supports Holocaust denial and warns of a Zionist conspiracy controlling the world.

Police are investigating the case after a complaint was made last month by the Council of Christians and Jews.

The CCJ also complained to the Bishop of Guildford, who supported Rev Sizer following calls for him to be suspended for linking to the site.

Rev Sizer used his Facebook profile to highlight a piece on US website The Ugly Truth, which claims to highlight "Zionism, Jewish extremism and a few other nasty items making our world uninhabitable today". He removed the link after JC inquiries in January.

A police spokesman said detectives had reviewed the material and were liaising with the Crown Prosecution Service to establish whether criminal offences had been committed.

This week, Rev Sizer said he could not comment on the case as the police investigation was ongoing. But he said he remained a supporter of the CCJ and would be willing to meet its members, or the Board of Deputies, to discuss the issue.

Ten supporters of Rev Sizer have written to Bishop of Guildford, the Right Reverend Christopher Hill, proclaiming his innocence.

Islington North MP Jeremy Corbyn, a patron of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, claimed the use of the link had been "a technical oversight".

He added: "The internet is a complicated piece of technology and with the best will in the world, imperfect links are made."

How did this man reach the level of Labour leader.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/66609/sizer-i-am-ready-meet-board-deputies-any-time

 

[Suikoguy]

Imperfect Links? You what now?

 

[kess]

You know, I used to respect the British system for it's dynamism, but that last year or so has made me question that. That said, these are unusually incompetent leaders.

 

[thebloo]

VP picks.

Dems: Tim "Kanye" Kaine.
Rep: Jeff Sessions.

Yeah, my picks are as boring as Tim.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Fallin was criticized for bias after ordering state-owned National Guard facilities to deny spousal benefits (including the provision of identification cards that would allow them to access such benefits) to all same-sex couples.[28] Fallin took the position that Oklahoma law did not recognize such relationships.[29] In response, U.S. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel said that Fallin's position violated the state's obligations under federal law.[30]

This woman is just filled with hate in her heart.

 

[Pixieking]

I could understand the Dump Corbyn alliance better if they

1) Didn't ignore the disconnect between what the rank-and-file voted for (Corbyn) and what the PLP want (not-Corbyn). He was democratically elected as leader.

and

2) Had United behind him. As it is, there's barely been a week where the party has been unified behind him. I could get it if they were fully behind him, and then this Leave result just recently tipped the scales, but the party has never been 100% behind him. This is just a somewhat recent example.

The Trump/Republican Party situation is almost a play-by-play replay of the Labour Party's last 9 months.

 

[Tubie]

Queen has me donating for a chance at those Hamilton tickets.

Well played Hillary, I was not going to donate anymore till after the convention, but you got me good with this one.

 

[User 463088]

Queen has me donating for a chance at those Hamilton tickets.

Well played Hillary, I was not going to donate anymore till after the convention, but you got me good with this one.

I volunteer to be your plus one.

You're welcome.

 

[Tubie]

.

Put me down to Kaine for Hillary and Newt for Trump (because who the fuck knows what this lunatic will do, he's just as likely to pick Palin or himself).

 

[Holmes]

That GoT finale

Spoiler

Cersei did to the High Sparrow what Hillary did to Sanders.

 

[User 463088]

That GoT finale

Spoiler

Cersei did to the High Sparrow what Hillary did to Sanders.

Did someone win the Game of Thrones? Is there a trophy? What about participation ribbons?

 

[Suikoguy]

Did someone win the Game of Thrones? Is there a trophy? What about participation ribbons?

I think it works like Hunger Games?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Man I always love Cool Pope threads, people bend over backwards to praise him for not fully hating on gays and women.

I'd love to see what Clinton Derangers think of the Pope.

 

[East Lake]

Man I always love Cool Pope threads, people bend over backwards to praise him for not fully hating on gays and women.

I'd love to see what Clinton Derangers think of the Pope.

Ever think to yourself that you sound like a BernieBro when you make these "not sufficiently extreme enough" arguments for everyone, but when it comes to Hillary it's a virtue that she's not a purist?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Ever think to yourself that you sound like a BernieBro when you make these "not sufficiently extreme enough" arguments for everyone, but when it comes to Hillary it's a virtue that she's not a purist?

LOL

The Pope is still anti-birth control, gay people having sex, abortion, women being ordained, etc....


This isn't about purity it's about how your message is packaged, This Pope is basically John Kasich to Benedict's Trump.

Also the Pope isn't a politician but a literal supreme ruler.

He could tomorrow change the rules of the church, but he doesn't because he still actually opposes the things I mentioned above.

I don't believe in giving credit and cool status to a sexist/homophobic person just because he's less sexist/homophobic than the guy that came before.

Your comparison is hilarious though.

 

[East Lake]

Yeah and Hillary is against reparations.

 

[kess]

The RNC Plans To Turn Bernie Backers Against Hillary Clinton’s VP Pick

Titled “Project Pander,” the RNC’s strategy memo also reveals which candidates the committee views as most likely to be selected. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), HUD Secretary Julian Castro and Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.) occupy the top tier; Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), Labor Secretary Thomas Perez and Rep. Xavier Becerra (D-Calif.) are in the second.

Authored by Raj Shah, the research director and deputy communications director at the RNC, the memo telegraphs a campaign of subterfuge that is traditionally executed in private. Parties normally don’t like their fingerprints on the attacks against the opposition. But this has been an untraditional election, with both sides relatively unapologetic about the mud they are slinging.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yeah and Hillary is against reparations.

What?

No seriously what?

I really hope that wasn't intended to be a mic drop moment.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Your anecdotal evidence is nothing!!!

 

[Tubie]

Ever think to yourself that you sound like a BernieBro when you make these "not sufficiently extreme enough" arguments for everyone, but when it comes to Hillary it's a virtue that she's not a purist?

So someone criticizing the pope for being against gay rights is now comparable to someone being a BernieBro.

Incredible.

 

[Tubie]

Yeah and Hillary is against reparations.

Oh boy.

 

[East Lake]

What?

No seriously what?

I really hope that wasn't intended to be a mic drop moment.

This isn't difficult to understand. Hillary is a progressive within limits. She doesn't support reparations because that's seen by white people as an extreme policy. Similarly the pope is not going to totally upend centuries of backwards traditions overnight.

Also the Pope isn't a politician but a literal supreme ruler.

He could tomorrow change the rules of the church, but he doesn't because he still actually opposes the things I mentioned above.

First you sound like a BernieBro now a nu atheist.

 

[metalslimer]

Bernie doesn't support reparations either. That issue is not about feasibility.

The pope is doing ok at trying to steer the church in a better direction. That being said he gets no points from me for basically saying gay people are humans.

 

[pigeon]

Most of the replies in Pope threads are really just lapsed Catholics who are happy it's not so embarrassing to say you're a Catholic any more.

 

[Holmes]

Your anecdotal evidence is nothing!!!

His parents are in NW Iowa. No wonder.

 

[excelsiorlef]

This isn't difficult to understand. Hillary is a progressive within limits. She doesn't support reparations because that's seen by white people as an extreme policy. Similarly the pope is not going to totally upend centuries of backwards traditions overnight.

First you sound like a BernieBro now a nu atheist.

My focus was on people dubbing him the cool Pope and falling over themselves to praise him and adore him just because he's not as dogmatically homophobic and sexist as the last guy. I don't expect him to change the church that much. I've never denied he's better than his predecessors, but I also acknowledge that that's not very hard.

I brought up Clinton because people shit on her for having once opposed same-sex marriage and question her loyalty (despite her having been an ally for a very long time) to the community. I'd love to know how many fall into the Cool Pope movement.

 

[thepotatoman]

I'm starting to think this time around the electoral college might slightly favor the republicans. I suspect PA, NH, CO, and IA all have a very good chance at ending up redder the national average, despite all being bluer than the national average in 2008 and 2012, thanks to the shift in the national average coming from states that'll still end up red like Arizona, Utah, and Texas.

The national average could still be more than enough to have Clinton win all 4 states, but it's still worth noting how this election is crazy enough that I don't think our electoral math from 2008 and 2012 applies very well.

It'll be more apparent in a month or two when there's a lot more statewide polls, but that's the feeling I'm getting right now.

 

[East Lake]

My focus was on people dubbing him the cool Pope and falling over themselves to praise him and adore him just because he's not as dogmatically homophobic and sexist as the last guy. I don't expect him to change the church that much. I've never denied he's better than his predecessors, but I also acknowledge that that's not very hard.

I brought up Clinton because people shit on her for having once opposed same-sex marriage and question her loyalty (despite her having been an ally for a very long time) to the community. I'd love to know how many fall into the Cool Pope movement.

Yeah well I was running for Pope and was ready to make gay marriage mandatory. Where were you guys, posting on gaming side?

 

[Pixieking]

"Everyone who's resigned in the #LabourCoup abstained on the Welfare Bill....."

Welfare Bill and resignations.

The main changes in the Bill are reducing the household welfare cap from £26,000 to £23,000, abolishing legally binding child poverty targets, cuts to child tax credits, cuts to Employment and Support Allowance, and cuts to housing benefit for young people.

[...]

Jeremy Corbyn voted against.

I wouldn't mind Labour plotting against Corbyn, but ffs, you can't pretend you're for the working class and poor, but abstain against that piece of shit bill.

 

[thebloo]

Is there any explanation why (generally) leftist are more inclined to fight among themselves and throw the baby out with the bathwater? Or is it not even true and just a perception?

 

[mo60]

I'm starting to think this time around the electoral college might slightly favor the republicans. I suspect PA, NH, CO, and IA all have a very good chance at ending up redder the national average, despite all being bluer than the national average in 2008 and 2012, thanks to the shift in the national average coming from states that'll still end up red like Arizona, Utah, and Texas.

The national average could still be more than enough to have Clinton win all 4 states, but it's still worth noting how this election is crazy enough that I don't think our electoral math from 2008 and 2012 applies very well.

It'll be more apparent in a month or two when there's a lot more statewide polls, but that's the feeling I'm getting right now.

I think the electoral college map will probably end up like 1992, 1996 or 2008 if Hilary continues to do very well in the polls I think she will win PA,NH, CO and IA pretty easily, but I'm not sure if she will win all these states by double digits yet.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

"Everyone who's resigned in the #LabourCoup abstained on the Welfare Bill....."

Welfare Bill and resignations.



I wouldn't mind Labour plotting against Corbyn, but ffs, you can't pretend you're for the working class and poor, but abstain against that piece of shit bill.

That's because most of them were in the Shadow Cabinet and Harman whipped an abstention in one of the most idiotic political gestures of all time. Corbyn could vote against because he wasn't in the Shadow Cabinet at the time. The resignations actually encompass a wide spread of the party - Malhotra is very much on the left of Labour. This is not a Blairite coup.

 

[Wilsongt]

Look at that. Markets in the UK are tanked again.

Congrats, UK!

 

[Suikoguy]

Ok, what is a shadow cabinet, and who in their right mind named it that?

 

[Maledict]

Ok, what is a shadow cabinet, and who in their right mind named it that?

It's the leadership team of the official opposition party. It mirrors the actual government so they can critisce and oppose policy appropriately,l. Just a naming convention - even if it does sound like something from an RPG.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Ok, what is a shadow cabinet, and who in their right mind named it that?

The Opposition has to form a Shadow Cabinet as counterparts to the actual Cabinet. Effectively, for every governmental department, you have an opposition spokesman responsible for holding the government to account and setting out what they'd have done in such a situation. They're called the Shadow Cabinet because they, well, shadow the actual Cabinet. It's one of the greatest features of parliamentary democracy because it means that the executive is always held to account - compare the US system where the Opposition solely opposes in a legislative capacity.

Unfortunately, the Shadow Cabinet is in an absolute shambles at the moment and has the collective talent of a particularly obtuse duck.

 

[foxuzamaki]

So I decided just for kicks to watch a few TYT videos about this whole brexit thing, and basically it keeps coming down to yeah everything is shitty and the economy is in the shitter for basically everybody, not just big banks, but this was anti establishment move apparently so there is some good to it, right?


It's so asinine.

 

[Maledict]

Is there any explanation why (generally) leftist are more inclined to fight among themselves and throw the baby out with the bathwater? Or is it not even true and just a perception?

It used to be that the right fell in line but the left fell in love. That's not really true now though - look at the infighting in the Republican Party. Or heck, even the Tories - the referendum was called to try and deal with a political threat from the right wing. Both sides are as bad as each other when it comes to these things.

In fact, in Beitish politics Id say the right wing are worse now than they ever were. The Tories historically placed a much higher emphasis on winning that they did political purity, but ever since they changed their leadership system to allow member votes they have struggled with shit like this. Basically, letting your members vote in leadership elections is clearly a very bad mistake.

 

[Suikoguy]

Interesting, thanks for the explanations.

So I decided just for kicks to watch a few TYT videos about this whole brexit thing, and basically it keeps coming down to yeah everything is shitty and the economy is in the shitter for basically everybody, not just big banks, but this was anti establishment move apparently so there is some good to it, right?


It's so asinine.

They can't seem to get over "the establishment". The only criticism of the EU I can see/understand is the Euro, i'm not convinced the benefits outweighed the downsides of the single currency move. But the rest of it seems super logical to me.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

It used to be that the right fell in line but the left fell in love. That's not really true now though - look at the infighting in the Republican Party. Or heck, even the Tories - the referendum was called to try and deal with a political threat from the right wing. Both sides are as bad as each other when it comes to these things.

In fact, in Beitish politics Id say the right wing are worse now than they ever were. The Tories historically placed a much higher emphasis on winning that they did political purity, but ever since they changed their leadership system to allow member votes they have struggled with shit like this. Basically, letting your members vote in leadership elections is clearly a very bad mistake.

I don't think member votes is in and of itself a problem. If you tried immunizing the main parties against this by blocking off access you'd just spur UKIP on to greater heights, which is fairly terrifying. The main party turmoil is a symptom of an underlying problem, and not the actual problem itself.