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[Pixieking]

That's because most of them were in the Shadow Cabinet and Harman whipped an abstention in one of the most idiotic political gestures of all time. Corbyn could vote against because he wasn't in the Shadow Cabinet at the time. The resignations actually encompass a wide spread of the party - Malhotra is very much on the left of Labour. This is not a Blairite coup.

Yeah, all true, though I believe you can vote against the Whip. And also true it's not just the Blairites who are against Corbyn. But what are the bets it's a Blairite who is the replacement, and that all the talk of Labour being "unelectable" then vanishes? It's hard to not draw the conclusion (from this, and the initial leadership contest) that what the PLP believes will get them elected is actually what lost them two elections, and that they're now just doubling down on being a centre-right party.

Edit to add: Which is fine, if there were a centre-left party that was actually decent. The Greens are... meh, and the Lib Dems are a wash after the spinelessness of Clegg - it'll take a lot to wipe the memory of tuition fee promises from people's minds.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Yeah, all true, though I believe you can vote against the Whip. And also true it's not just the Blairites who are against Corbyn. But what are the bets it's a Blairite who is the replacement, and that all the talk of Labour being "unelectable" then vanishes? It's hard to not draw the conclusion (from this, and the initial leadership contest) that what the PLP believes will get them elected is actually what lost them two elections, and that they're now just doubling down on being a centre-right party.

It won't be a Blairite replacement. Firstly because there are actually very few true Blairites left given Blair stood down a decade ago now, and secondly because those that are still around would never win the membership vote. The winning candidate would be someone from the soft left.

 

[Pixieking]

It won't be a Blairite replacement. Firstly because there are actually very few true Blairites left given Blair stood down a decade ago now, and secondly because those that are still around would never win the membership vote. The winning candidate would be someone from the soft left.

I have my doubts... But *shrugs* To be honest, my take-away from the past few days is that you pretty-much can't second-guess and can't trust anything in British politics. If even things which make actual objective sense (Remain), are just thrown to the wind, then, like... wtf? Madness.

Off-topic, but bloody hell! Actual NeoGAF member. Junior no longer!

 

[Maledict]

Yeah, all true, though I believe you can vote against the Whip. And also true it's not just the Blairites who are against Corbyn. But what are the bets it's a Blairite who is the replacement, and that all the talk of Labour being "unelectable" then vanishes? It's hard to not draw the conclusion (from this, and the initial leadership contest) that what the PLP believes will get them elected is actually what lost them two elections, and that they're now just doubling down on being a centre-right party.

Edit to add: Which is fine, if there were a centre-left party that was actually decent. The Greens are... meh, and the Lib Dems are a wash after the spinelessness of Clegg - it'll take a lot to wipe the memory of tuition fee promises from people's minds.

You cannot be in cabinet and vote against the whip. That's a basic rule of parliamentary party policy. And no-one was going to do that because the party was fractured and wounded after a dreadful election result no/one expected. It was a stupid decision by Harman but completely understandable why the cabinet voted as it did.

Also, the idea this is a blairite plot is so dumb. There's like 25 MPs *tops* who could be described as Blairites. Seems Malbotra resigned ffs. Left wing ministers are going. People thinking this is linked to Blairites literally haven't been watching Labour Party politics for the last 5 years.

 

[Pixieking]

You cannot be in cabinet and vote against the whip. That's a basic rule of parliamentary party policy. And no-one was going to do that because the party was fractured and wounded after a dreadful election result no/one expected. It was a stupid decision by Harman but completely understandable why the cabinet voted as it did.

Also, the idea this is a blairite plot is so dumb. There's like 25 MPs *tops* who could be described as Blairites. Seems Malbotra resigned ffs. Left wing ministers are going. People thinking this is linked to Blairites literally haven't been watching Labour Party politics for the last 5 years.

Mmmm... I think maybe (and I'm probably guilty of it too) people say "Blairite" but mean "Right of Centre". Because, let's be honest - the non-stop talk of getting rid of Corbyn (which has been happening since September) is as much down to his political leanings (Socialist Left) as it is his manner and image.

Also, did not know that about cabinet positions and the Whip. Learn something new everyday.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

There is a core of right-wing MPs who have been plotting Corbyn's downfall for months, yes, but they are by no means even the largest part of this current revolt.

 

[CCS]

You cannot be in cabinet and vote against the whip. That's a basic rule of parliamentary party policy. And no-one was going to do that because the party was fractured and wounded after a dreadful election result no/one expected. It was a stupid decision by Harman but completely understandable why the cabinet voted as it did.

Also, the idea this is a blairite plot is so dumb. There's like 25 MPs *tops* who could be described as Blairites. Seems Malbotra resigned ffs. Left wing ministers are going. People thinking this is linked to Blairites literally haven't been watching Labour Party politics for the last 5 years.

This is very important to remember. I can think of one Tory Minister who by all accounts was desperate not to have the whip withdrawn...

Spoiler

John Whittingdale jokes yay

 

[Deleted member 231381]

On the upside, it looks like the British Empire is on the way back - Brexit has conquered all of the PoliGAFs now!

 

[CCS]

On the upside, it looks like the British Empire is on the way back - Brexit has conquered all of the PoliGAFs now!

Hope we don't get banned for off topic, otherwise there will be a Brexit from this thread!

 

[Maledict]

Yep - this is basically the entire PLP, left and right wing, telling Corbyn to fuck off. All he has left are the tiny group of supported he has, who will stay to the end, and that spineless work known as Andy Burnham.

Also, this current turmoil in the Tories does remind me of the Republican Party fractures. For years the parry has tapped into the anger, resentment and racism of the voting base without actually doing anything about it. It's used those votes to keep the city happy and to keep business happy / the people who pay the party's bills. But now, like with Donald Trump, the lunatics have taken over. No-one would ever have predicted that it would be the Conservative party that would stick a knife through the heart of the city. I imagine top Tories are being told in no uncertain terms by their paymasters to walk this the fuck back and fast.

Similarly, if labour elect someone like Jarvis who takes a centre left approach, with a strong pro-EU platform, they could easily swing the city behind them just like they did under Blair and reclaim the middle ground. Which, for all of Corbyn's supporters bleating, is where elections are won in the UK. When your opponent goes mad and abandons it, your response should be to seize it.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Hope we don't get banned for off topic, otherwise there will be a Brexit from this thread!

We'll set up our own NeoGAF and negotiate with EviLore to have a joint bans policy. We have the negotiating position, NeoGAF needs our posts!

 

[Pixieking]

Hope we don't get banned for off topic, otherwise there will be a Brexit from this thread!

Eeep!

More on topic, then: Trump fuels Democrats' slim House hopes

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee this week capped a late recruiting surge, which began as Trump gained momentum in the GOP presidential race, by adding a final candidate in Florida before Friday’s filing deadline, in GOP Rep. John Mica’s suburban Orlando district.

[...]

“We are going to take back the House and the Senate,” Hillary Clinton declared optimistically after meeting with House Democrats on Wednesday.

 

[CCS]

We'll set up our own NeoGAF and negotiate with EviLore to have a joint bans policy. We have the negotiating position, NeoGAF needs our posts!

We need sovereignty over thread titles, not unelected NeoGAF bureaucrats deciding them for us!

 

[Deleted member 231381]

We need sovereignty over thread titles, not unelected NeoGAF bureaucrats deciding them for us!

I am announcing my intention to run as moderator. My credentials are the ability to bullshit like a motherfucker and a rather foppish haircut.

 

[Pixieking]

I am announcing my intention to run as moderator. My credentials are the ability to bullshit like a motherfucker and a rather foppish haircut.

Sounds a bit... threatening. Do you have a "lovable rogue" kind of first-name that the media could pin to you so everything you say is framed as "a bit of a laugh"?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Sounds a bit... threatening. Do you have a "lovable rogue" kind of first-name that the media could pin to you so everything you say is framed as "a bit of a laugh"?

I shall change my username to CrabbleWibble and end all of my posts with ayy lmao.

 

[Pixieking]

I shall change my username to CrabbleWibble and end all of my posts with ayy lmao.

Goooooooood...

You have my vote.

 

[RastaMentality]

Biden completely destroyed Ryan in the debate on substance, but he looked like a hammy, preening asshole by smiling and laughing his way through the whole thing.

Yeah everyone here thinks Ryan was murdered but a lot of people thought Biden came off as an ass. Unfortunately so.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

So I decided just for kicks to watch a few TYT videos about this whole brexit thing, and basically it keeps coming down to yeah everything is shitty and the economy is in the shitter for basically everybody, not just big banks, but this was anti establishment move apparently so there is some good to it, right?


It's so asinine.

Their obsession with the establishment is nauseating.
Think Hillary Clinton might do a good job? You're just brainwashed by the establishment.

 

[plagiarize]

Look at that. Markets in the UK are tanked again.

Congrats, UK!

I see that. Did anything new spur this on do we know?

 

[Pixieking]

I see that. Did anything new spur this on do we know?

I don't think anything specific, just a lack of anything concrete from anyone here as to what is going to happen. Osborne made a statement before the UK markets opened saying the "emergency Budget" would be delayed until November, possibly under some other Chancellor. Johnson said a few words outside his house about how the "pound was stable". Neither of those has helped calm the markets, so it's just carrying-on from Friday.

 

[User 463088]

I think Labour completely falling apart may have spooked the markets a bit? Maybe? Seems like pretty much everyone is gone from the Shadow Cabinet. What a mess.

Also Lord King basically screaming EVERYTHING IS FINE STOP FUCKING PANICKING PLEASE might be indicative of the way some people are feeling.

 

[Pixieking]

I think Labour completely falling apart may have spooked the markets a bit? Maybe? Seems like pretty much everyone is gone from the Shadow Cabinet. What a mess.

Also Lord King basically screaming EVERYTHING IS FINE STOP FUCKING PANICKING PLEASE might be indicative of the way some people are feeling.

More likely the fact that there's a power-vacuum in government, rather than a coup with Labour. PM's gone, Osborne's on the way out, Johnson is... de facto future PM? But without a leadership contest, so the hell knows. I just want the Queen to get involved and use some power-of-the-state shenanigans to call a general election, tbh.

 

[User 463088]

Also, for the first time in my life, the fact that I follow British politics is paying off. Come on MSNBC, put me on as an expert. At least I know who these people are......

 

[CCS]

Thought I'd do a quick summary of the Labour Party chaos:

-The Parliamentary Labour Party are meeting tonight, where they will decide whether or not to have a vote of no confidence in Corbyn.

-If they decide to have a vote, there will be a secret ballot tomorrow.

-If he is no confidenced, there will be another leadership election.

-Corbyn's supporters believe he gets onto the ballot automatically, his opponents believe not. From what I've read you can make a case either way.

-Regardless, if Corbyn does make it onto the ballot, support for him is still strong amongst the membership, but he is losing the support of some backers such as the Young Labour group.

-Therefore, a soft left candidate may well have a chance of defeating him.

Think that covers most of it.

 

[Diablos]

Markets taking a beating again.

If you Leave voters ruin the economy... 😁😁😁
This is just the worst timing. We don't need this level of economic uncertainty if not chaos heading into the general election.

It's very depressing to know that pretty much everyone young voted Remain and a bunch of low info old racist fools are responsible for the outcome.

 

[FloydtheFathead]

Thought I'd do a quick summary of the Labour Party chaos:

-The Parliamentary Labour Party are meeting tonight, where they will decide whether or not to have a vote of no confidence in Corbyn.

-If they decide to have a vote, there will be a secret ballot tomorrow.

-If he is no confidenced, there will be another leadership election.

-Corbyn's supporters believe he gets onto the ballot automatically, his opponents believe not. From what I've read you can make a case either way.

-Regardless, if Corbyn does make it onto the ballot, support for him is still strong amongst the membership, but he is losing the support of some backers such as the Young Labour group.

-Therefore, a soft left candidate may well have a chance of defeating him.

Think that covers most of it.

And I thought nothing would trump Donald Trump as a presidential candidate.. The UK and their election seem like a huge boondoggle in comparison right now.

 

[whyamihere]

This is bigger than Blairites and that seems like a pretty lazy excuse for what's actually happening.

If Corbyn wins again, that's his mandate, but it's going to be a weird Shadow Cabinent with almost all relative newcomers.

 

[Maledict]

This is bigger than Blairites and that seems like a pretty lazy excuse for what's actually happening.

If Corbyn wins again, that's his mandate, but it's going to be a weird Shadow Cabinent with almost all relative newcomers.

I honestly think you will see a party split if that happens. So many unhappy people right now, and the lib dems are making all the right noises.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Brexit's broken promises: Health care, immigration and the economy

Everyone give the population of Britain a hand, great job guys!

Now on the cup half full... do you think that if Brexit completely fails to do anything in terms of immigration, NHS (and the economy tanks) that Labor (if they get their shit together) and do a major takeover as everyone feels they have been duped?

 

[nature boy]

Mark MurrayVerified account
‏@mmurraypolitics
NBC's GOP VP frontrunners:

Top Tier: Thune, Corker, Christie, Scott

In The Hunt: Fallin, Pence, Sessions, Newt

But as Newt said, "Trump will decide 2 days before the convention".

 

[User 463088]

I feel like if Corybn manages to hold on, it's going to be a huge question mark over the direction Labour should go. The Tories are going to be pro-Brexit because of electoral relevance (and it's probably going to be Boris with the Leadership). You've got the Lib Dems saying all the right pro-EU things (but they broke my heart before). You've got the SNP who is, on paper, pro-EU but more like pro-Scotland being in the EU. So, this leaves Labour more divided than the other parties, with a leader who just (maybe) survived a vote of confidence.

Edit: Also, UKIP may have more relevance in some pro-Labour areas if Labour doesn't play this thing right.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I mean there's always going to be an issue with combining Presidential style primaries with the Westminster parliamentary system, in that the membership can install a leader who has no support or very weak support in the caucus.

The same thing basically happened with NZ Labour from memory.

 

[Diablos]

Corbyn seems like a weak leader. Lots of talk but little action. He reminds me of Bernie Sanders.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Corbyn seems like a weak leader. Lots of talk but little action. He reminds me of Bernie Sanders.

He is just not up to it, would get trashed in pre election debates later this year.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I mean there's always going to be an issue with combining Presidential style primaries with the Westminster parliamentary system, in that the membership can install a leader who has no support or very weak support in the caucus.

The same thing basically happened with NZ Labour from memory.

It works in proportional systems, because if the party defies the membership, then voting for an alternative party is entirely feasible. The UK is stuck in some weird no man's land right now, though - there's about six parties trying to express themselves in an electoral set-up trying to enforce two. New Zealand partially solved the problem by moving to MMP; but the UK is in too much of a state to be bothered with stuff like that. Because these battles can't take place in the actual explicit electoral system, they're taking place inside the parties instead.

 

[thestopsign]

.

Put me down for Warren and Gingrich.

 

[whyamihere]

But as Newt said, "Trump will decide 2 days before the convention".

Thune has been pretty meh on Trump and has publicly stated how concerned he is about the things Trump has said. That seems unlikely.

 

[Fox318]

VP Picks

Dems: Mark Dayton
GOP: Louie Gohmert

 

[nature boy]

Thune has been pretty meh on Trump and has publicly stated how concerned he is about the things Trump has said. That seems unlikely.

Yep, this is probably from the Trump side, probably not a lot of interaction with any candidate yet.

Going by the list, it's probably Christie.

 

[Plinko]

But as Newt said, "Trump will decide 2 days before the convention".

That's a weak list of "top tier" candidates.

 

[gcubed]

Markets taking a beating again.

If you Leave voters ruin the economy... 😁😁😁
This is just the worst timing. We don't need this level of economic uncertainty if not chaos heading into the general election.

It's very depressing to know that pretty much everyone young voted Remain and a bunch of low info old racist fools are responsible for the outcome.

Economic turmoil from brexit IMO is a boon to Clinton in the "dumb anti establishment rhetoric not based in reality and built on lies from idiots maybe isn't the best thing"

 

[Diablos]

Economic turmoil from brexit IMO is a boon to Clinton in the "dumb anti establishment rhetoric not based in reality and built on lies from idiots maybe isn't the best thing"

Eh but if people's investments take a hit, hiring slows down etc. then a lot of everyday people won't care about that. We can't afford to have the economy on uncertain terms heading into the GE, we really can't.

 

[Diablos]

Corbyn shadow cabinet falling apart, lol

 

[HylianTom]

Trump has his phone back, tweeting away.. and the Hillary campaign's press secretary is having fun:

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The situation I'm referring to was actually under MMP. After an electoral rout, Labour's leader stepped down and Labour decided to hold a primary rather than just let caucus decide as was the norm. The party membership, parliamentary caucus and trade unions all had a proportion of the decision; I can't remember the exact proportion.

While he lost the caucus share, David Cunliffe won the leadership on the basis of union affiliates and the membership. Although it was actually well known the caucus rather disliked him. He went on to lose the election. Although really NZ Labour is a mess, so I don't think disunity and less than full-throated leadership support was the reason.

That's UK Labour's old electoral system (unions had a third of the electoral college, members a third, parliamentary caucus a third). Miliband won in a similar way to Cunliffe - lost the caucus, won the affiliates. For both Miliband and Cunliffe, I don't think the critical part of the loss was the opposition of the caucus; I just think they weren't very charismatic. Both parties have been suffering a dearth of talent. Across the Western world the left is struggling.

 

[Armaros]

I see that. Did anything new spur this on do we know?

It doesn't help that along side the entire Brexit mess, both sides of the government, the ones in power and the opposition, are both crumbling down.

And also all the reports about how there is no real plan to exit as smoothly as possible.

 

[User 463088]

Trump has his phone back, tweeting away.. and the Hillary campaign's press secretary is having fun:

I love her press secretary. Dudes snarky and I love it.

 

[Makai]

Democrat: Jeb (wildcard)
Republican: Christie

 

[CCS]

In a discussion with one of my friends, I inadvertently came up with the worst ship ever:

Chris Christie x Boris Johnson