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PoliGAF 2016 |OT7| Notorious R.B.G. Plans NZ Tour

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M

Macho Madness

Member
adam387 said:
Hillary updated her jobs/education plan with a new policy.

Anyone who starts a business can have their student loans deferred with 0 interest for 3 years while they try to get their business off the ground. Pretty interesting idea, really.
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So it's a way to help the least amount of people, and those more likely to not need the help. Hoo boy.
 
P

Plumbob

Member
If the government's going to subsidize or defer student loans, shouldn't the loans be tied to a concrete public benefit? Seems to me small business creation would be more socially valuable than simply taking a job somewhere.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Kristoffer said:
No more delegates at all.

Complete and total direct democracy. "But won't turnout be highly dependent on when the election happens?" Exactly, so make them happen on the same day.

All the other stuff that happens at the convention, like platform decisions, are irrelevant because the nominee will always follow their own platform. Like, duh.

And then there will be no more hemming and hawing about the South. It's just a raw number of democrats in the country and territories.
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That seems like a really great blueprint to assure that minorities never have any say in government ever again.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
Plumbob said:
If the government's going to subsidize or defer student loans, shouldn't the loans be tied to a concrete public benefit? Seems to me small business creation would be more socially valuable than simply taking a job somewhere.
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I don't know if I'd compare the two like that. I think the loan deferral is a conscious realization that most small businesses have a very hard time their first few years, and that success is very rarely guaranteed. Entrepreneurship is the heart of America and respecting / encouraging it is paying it back.
BlastProcessing said:
That seems like a really great blueprint to assure that minorities never have any say in government ever again.
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1) I am specifically talking about the primaries
2) I'm not sure what you're talking about, actually.
3) I'm sure that the number of black people voting in e.g. South Carolina primaries will remain the same. Since the current delegation system is designed to accurately represent the number of Democrats in each state, there should theoretically be no change.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
eBay Huckster said:
what kind of business, though

do i get mine deferred if i start up a poutinerie?
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I'm not sure if there's any restrictions. It was posted under technology, so perhaps it's related to those types of startups. Also, if that's your idea...I'll give you money.

Macho Madness said:
So it's a way to help the least amount of people, and those more likely to not need the help. Hoo boy.
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That's not the extent of her plan, it's just something that she recently added to it. It's the newest change.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Kristoffer said:
3) I'm sure that the number of black people voting in e.g. South Carolina primaries will remain the same. Since the current delegation system is designed to accurately represent the number of Democrats in each state, there should theoretically be no change.
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I don't believe this is true. Some states receive extra delegates or fewer delegates depending on demographics. It's basically just up to the DNC to distribute the delegates.
 
S

Slayven

Member
Ophelion said:
Is it terrible of me to say that after Brexit, my stomach for moving America toward any kind of direct democracy has reduced significantly?
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That is why I have no problem with super delegates. People need to have checks and balances, Sometimes the population needs to be told no or to be protected from itself.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Kristoffer said:
I don't know if I'd compare the two like that. I think the loan deferral is a conscious realization that most small businesses have a very hard time their first few years, and that success is very rarely guaranteed. Entrepreneurship is the heart of America and respecting / encouraging it is paying it back.

1) I am specifically talking about the primaries
2) I'm not sure what you're talking about, actually.
3) I'm sure that the number of black people voting in e.g. South Carolina primaries will remain the same. Since the current delegation system is designed to accurately represent the number of Democrats in each state, there should theoretically be no change.
Click to expand...

1) You said that platform decisions would take place entirely at a convention. So you are talking about more than primaries and assure that minority issues are always diminished in their representation on that platform.

2) It's not just Black people or even ethnic minorities that would be affected. Any type of minority would be drastically under represented in that system.

3) Why would you have a primary system that deemphasizes the regional power of states to pick a candidate to run in a national election that is based on the regional power of states? New York and/or California would just keep selecting candidates who would get crushed nationally.
 
T

Teggy

Member
Michael Calderone ‏@mlcalderone 4h4 hours ago
CNN turns to new commentator Corey Lewandowski, who says this was "Mr. Trump’s best speech of the presidential cycle."
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Michael Calderone ‏@mlcalderone 4h4 hours ago
A minute later: “This is a very, very strong message for him and, I think, the best speech he’s given all cycle.”
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Michael Calderone ‏@mlcalderone 3h3 hours ago
And later: "The speech was delivered clearly, articulately, and again, the best speech of the campaign so far”
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Really, CNN should be ashamed of themselves for this.
 
J

jack_package_200

Banned
Jill Stein flip-flops on Brexit. Having initially supported Brexit (calling it a "victory") in her official statement, she has now changed official statement on her website (without indicating changes) and claims that she always supported the UK staying in the EU

Her statement on 25 June 2016. First paragraph gets the gist of it:

The vote in Britain to exit the European Union (EU) is a victory for those who believe in the right of self-determination and who reject the pro-corporate, austerity policies of the political elites in EU. The vote says no to the EU’s vision of a world run by and for big business. It is also a rejection of the European political elite and their contempt for ordinary people.
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What her official statement says now. Key sentence (absent from the first version, nothing remotely supportive of the UK staying in the EU can be found in the first version):

Before the Brexit vote I agreed with Jeremy Corbyn, Caroline Lucas and the UK Greens who supported staying in the EU but working to fix it, because the EU has many problems.
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S

Slayven

Member
Bernie Sanders:"I am voting for Clinton, but I am not yet endorsing her"


Bernie sure does get testy when ask him something he can't counter with his stump speech
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Emarv said:
One step closer to a GAF account!
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tumblr_inline_ncg0qaLjWE1qhg0kw.gif
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
New poll finds that yes, Trump supporters are more racist than everyone else.

Nearly half of Trump's supporters described African Americans as more "violent" than whites. The same proportion described African Americans as more "criminal" than whites, while 40 percent described them as more "lazy" than whites.
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Sadly:
In smaller, but still significant, numbers, Clinton backers also viewed blacks more critically than whites with regard to certain personality traits. Nearly one-third of Clinton supporters described blacks as more "violent" and "criminal" than whites, and one-quarter described them as more "lazy" than whites.
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Ugh.

When asked about where they wanted to live, 36 percent of Trump supporters said, "I prefer to live in a community with people who come from diverse cultures," compared with 46 percent of Cruz supporters, 55 percent of Kasich supporters and 70 percent of Clinton supporters.
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Some 31 percent of Trump supporters said they "strongly agree" that "social policies, such as affirmative action, discriminate unfairly against white people," compared with 21 percent of Cruz supporters, 17 percent of Kasich supporters and 16 percent of Clinton supporters.
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For example, 32 percent of Trump supporters placed whites closer to the top level of "intelligence" than they did blacks, compared with 22 percent of Clinton supporters who did the same.

About 40 percent of Trump supporters placed whites higher on the "hardworking" scale than blacks, while 25 percent of Clinton supporters did the same. And 44 percent of Trump supporters placed whites as more "well mannered" than blacks, compared with 30 percent of Clinton supporters.
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USA-ELECTION-RACE.jpg
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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-race-idUSKCN0ZE2SW
 
U

User 463088

Banned
CCS said:
I am shocked. Shocked I tell you.

Those numbers among Clinton supporters are sad though :(
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They are sad. :(

Also, Trump is in Ohio tonight. Haven't we suffered enough!?

Kasich wasn't asked to come to the convention, and he doesn't plan on doing it either.
 
J

j_k_redtail

Member
Sanders has an op ed in the NYT this evening:

Surprise, surprise. Workers in Britain, many of whom have seen a decline in their standard of living while the very rich in their country have become much richer, have turned their backs on the European Union and a globalized economy that is failing them and their children.

And it’s not just the British who are suffering. That increasingly globalized economy, established and maintained by the world’s economic elite, is failing people everywhere. Incredibly, the wealthiest 62 people on this planet own as much wealth as the bottom half of the world’s population — around 3.6 billion people. The top 1 percent now owns more wealth than the whole of the bottom 99 percent. The very, very rich enjoy unimaginable luxury while billions of people endure abject poverty, unemployment, and inadequate health care, education, housing and drinking water.

Could this rejection of the current form of the global economy happen in the United States? You bet it could.

During my campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination, I’ve visited 46 states. What I saw and heard on too many occasions were painful realities that the political and media establishment fail even to recognize.

In the last 15 years, nearly 60,000 factories in this country have closed, and more than 4.8 million well-paid manufacturing jobs have disappeared. Much of this is related to disastrous trade agreements that encourage corporations to move to low-wage countries.

Despite major increases in productivity, the median male worker in America today is making $726 dollars less than he did in 1973, while the median female worker is making $1,154 less than she did in 2007, after adjusting for inflation.

Nearly 47 million Americans live in poverty. An estimated 28 million have no health insurance, while many others are underinsured. Millions of people are struggling with outrageous levels of student debt. For perhaps the first time in modern history, our younger generation will probably have a lower standard of living than their parents. Frighteningly, millions of poorly educated Americans will have a shorter life span than the previous generation as they succumb to despair, drugs and alcohol.

Meanwhile, in our country the top one-tenth of 1 percent now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent. Fifty-eight percent of all new income is going to the top 1 percent. Wall Street and billionaires, through their “super PACs,” are able to buy elections.

On my campaign, I’ve talked to workers unable to make it on $8 or $9 an hour; retirees struggling to purchase the medicine they need on $9,000 a year of Social Security; young people unable to afford college. I also visited the American citizens of Puerto Rico, where some 58 percent of the children live in poverty and only a little more than 40 percent of the adult population has a job or is seeking one.

Let’s be clear. The global economy is not working for the majority of people in our country and the world. This is an economic model developed by the economic elite to benefit the economic elite. We need real change.

But we do not need change based on the demagogy, bigotry and anti-immigrant sentiment that punctuated so much of the Leave campaign’s rhetoric — and is central to Donald J. Trump’s message.

We need a president who will vigorously support international cooperation that brings the people of the world closer together, reduces hypernationalism and decreases the possibility of war. We also need a president who respects the democratic rights of the people, and who will fight for an economy that protects the interests of working people, not just Wall Street, the drug companies and other powerful special interests.

We need to fundamentally reject our “free trade” policies and move to fair trade. Americans should not have to compete against workers in low-wage countries who earn pennies an hour. We must defeat the Trans-Pacific Partnership. We must help poor countries develop sustainable economic models.

We need to end the international scandal in which large corporations and the wealthy avoid paying trillions of dollars in taxes to their national governments.

We need to create tens of millions of jobs worldwide by combating global climate change and by transforming the world’s energy system away from fossil fuels.

We need international efforts to cut military spending around the globe and address the causes of war: poverty, hatred, hopelessness and ignorance.

The notion that Donald Trump could benefit from the same forces that gave the Leave proponents a majority in Britain should sound an alarm for the Democratic Party in the United States. Millions of American voters, like the Leave supporters, are understandably angry and frustrated by the economic forces that are destroying the middle class.

In this pivotal moment, the Democratic Party and a new Democratic president need to make clear that we stand with those who are struggling and who have been left behind. We must create national and global economies that work for all, and not a handful of billionaires.
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V

Valhelm

contribute something
Can we stop celebrating small business, please? While small business owners are generally less slimy than corporate rats, there's still the same potential for an employer to exploit a worker, with less regulation to boot.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Valhelm said:
Can we stop celebrating small business, please? While small business owners are generally less slimy than corporate rats, there's still the same potential for an employer to exploit a worker, with less regulation to boot.
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Of course, but that's true of anything. Technically, I'm a small business owner in that I work for myself now. (I have two part time contracts for local companies It's shit work, I don't make a lot, but I do it for myself.)

I think people taking the risk to open their own business is a great thing. It's something that should be nurtured.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
I agree with this tweetstorm.

Judd Legum ‏@JuddLegum
1. There is an odd media obsession about whether Trump can "pivot" and "be more disciplined." Why does this matter, exactly?

Judd Legum ‏@JuddLegum
2. Who is the audience for Trump's pivot? People who have been in a coma for the past year?

Judd Legum ‏@JuddLegum
3. Why do we assume attitudes about Trump are so fluid that a few days or even weeks of a new message will change voter perceptions?

Judd Legum ‏@JuddLegum
4. This is really about the media's need for narrative. There must be a way for Trump 2 change the dynamics because otherwise this is boring

Judd Legum ‏@JuddLegum
5. This isn't to say the dynamics can't change. I just don't think a new set of talking points for Trump is a plausible as a game-changer.
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M

metalslimer

Member
Sanders message ignoring the racism and xenophobia that played a large part of the vote is the reason he wasn't able to appeal to minorities. He doesn't have any kind of cohesive message on race.
 
H

Holmes

Member
Jamelle Bouie has an article on Slate about how Sanders overplayed his hand post-primary. It's a good read, and I agree with a lot of it. I think he should have at least conceded when the primaries ended. Now it's Clinton's and Warren's party.
 
J

j_k_redtail

Member
Holmes said:
Jamelle Bouie has an article on Slate about how Sanders overplayed his hand post-primary. It's a good read, and I agree with a lot of it. I think he should have at least conceded when the primaries ended. Now it's Clinton's and Warren's party.
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Honestly, I'm not sure Sanders overplayed his hand so much as he didn't have hand to play. What has his strategy been over the last few weeks? Basically to pretend that it isn't over, when it is. In retrospect, I'm not sure he had as much leverage two weeks ago as we all thought.

He presents himself as a candidate who is playing "hardball", and as one who is unwilling to compromise on his principles. But the reality is that Clinton didn't (and doesn't) have to negotiate with him as long as left-leaning elected officials like Warren (and voters!) are lining up behind her. Historical trends predicted that they would, and there wasn't really anything to suggest that this year would be unusual (in that regard, anyway). So I agree he should have conceded much earlier - at this point the campaign is just wasting money.
 
C

Captain Pants

Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
Valhelm said:
Can we stop celebrating small business, please? While small business owners are generally less slimy than corporate rats, there's still the same potential for an employer to exploit a worker, with less regulation to boot.
Click to expand...
As a small business owner that makes $15,000 a year, pays $3,000 a year in taxes and pays his one employee close to $30,000 a year, I'd appreciate a little more celebrating.
 
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