PoliGAF 2016 |OT7| Notorious R.B.G. Plans NZ Tour

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johnsmith said:
It's a dead heat. Looking forward to the election night meltdowns.
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Once they admit Florida is slipping away, it'll crush their morale. The math is just too stark I wonder how many points down they'd have to be down in Florida before Ailes would let them admit it was even leaning blue?
 
Kristoffer said:
Guys, that picture I posted was from the wonderful Facebook page "Shares from your aunt", a hilarious satire on the misinformation you often see on your feed from Midwestern relatives.
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I don't think I've ever seen that page/picture, and I doubt a lot of others have either, which made it pretty confusing.

I figured it was satire of some sort, though.
 
IggyChooChoo said:
Once they admit Florida is slipping away, it'll crush their morale. The math is just too stark I wonder how many points down they'd have to be down in Florida before Ailes would let them admit it was even leaning blue?
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They won't admit that anytime soon considering they have PA as a tossup.
 
nature boy said:
Fox News Electoral Map:

1467919955208.jpg
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I still shake my head at everyone putting Florida in play. If a democrat can't win in this election with the Hispanic population down there and how badly they hate Trump, I have no hope for the party.
 
Kristoffer said:
I've never heard of this before. The police enforce the law (otherwise it is meaningless). What I've heard before is "protecting oneself from the enforcement of unjust law".
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The point is that, in general, the behavior that the police engages in is not subject to the law. It is technically illegal, after all, to shoot a bunch of black people for no reason. The police do it anyway in contravention of the law because they know that they will be protected and believed.

The authority of the law derives from our joint agreement as a society to forbid certain behaviors, to encourage others, and to authorize the use of force on our behalf to protect this agreement.

The authority of the police derives from their authorization to use force and our assumption that that force will be deployed appropriately.

The two are really not the same thing! I assume that the majority of people who are against police violence are in support of the law. They just want it appropriately enforced.
 
pigeon said:
The point is that, in general, the behavior that the police engages in is not subject to the law. It is technically illegal, after all, to shoot a bunch of black people for no reason. The police do it anyway in contravention of the law because they know that they will be protected and believed.

The authority of the law derives from our joint agreement as a society to forbid certain behaviors, to encourage others, and to authorize the use of force on our behalf to protect this agreement.

The authority of the police derives from their authorization to use force and our assumption that that force will be deployed appropriately.

The two are really not the same thing! I assume that the majority of people who are against police violence are in support of the law. They just want it appropriately enforced.
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My original point was that the potential abuse of vested authority is not justification for arming yourself against the police. It is a net loss in every capacity.
 
Plinko said:
I still shake my head at everyone putting Florida in play. If a democrat can't win in this election with the Hispanic population down there and how badly they hate Trump, I have no hope for the party.
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Because if you don't put Florida in play the path to Trump winning looks next to impossible
 
Kristoffer said:
My original point was that the potential abuse of vested authority is not justification for arming yourself against the police. It is a net loss in every capacity.
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I don't see why.

I would also take issue with the phrasing of "arming yourself against the police." The point is that you have the constitutional right to bear arms. You don't need a specific target or justification.
 
pigeon said:
I don't see why.

I would also take issue with the phrasing of "arming yourself against the police." The point is that you have the constitutional right to bear arms. You don't need a specific target or justification.
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The interpretation of the law, right now, is certainly the way you describe it.

The 2nd Amendment was a mistake. People do not have a right to self-defense with firearms. This right does not exist in Europe except in Switzerland and maybe France.

Sporting and hunting should be done with rented, on-site weapons.

I want complete and total disarmament of non-security personnel in this country within my lifetime. If we lived in a country where guns had never been a right, do you think people would be vigorously advocating for the legalization of these weapons for "self-defense"?

I like the history of the Black Panthers and I can't help but feel satisfied when I hear about how Fred Thompson made people afraid just because black men were understanding their rights and mobilizing. But then I think about the ramifications of mass arming and I don't feel smug about it anymore. When I think about armed civilians, I don't think of law abiding do-gooders defending themselves from bad cops and evil men, I think of Waco, Bundy Ranch, MOVE bombing...

Besides, guns are for killing. Are you telling me men should be able to kill a cop in the case of improper use of power? Or in self defense? That's certainly what I'm extrapolating from your defense of defense. It doesn't matter how right someone is, because as soon as shots are fired on police, your life is over.
 
ampere said:
Sad that RBG will be likely leaving us soon, but she'll probably be happy to do it under a woman president.

I wonder how many appointments we'll see in the next few years, sounds like at least 2, and maybe as many as 4
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Kennedy will surely retire within 8 years. Breyer will also retire so his seat will get locked down.

Add Scalia's seat and we're looking at six liberals for a decade or more if she gets two terms. That hasn't happened since . . . the Warren court? Fuck, it's really unbelievable how long conservatives have dominated.
 
As I said in the chat, this is Hillary's huge and maybe only chance to truly connect with and inspire poc youth. When there's so many people (including black entertainers) copping out with AllLivesMatter and BlueLivesMatter, Warren and her could use this as a completely positive force for good.

I hope her campaign makes the right maneuver because appeasing white voters who're gonna hate her the moment she starts talking about gun control isn't the right one.
 
Aaron Strife said:
The congressional ballot is good.

Even if gerrymandering is too strong, I could see Democrats coming within a couple seats of a majority. And I think that would force Ryan's hand on a lot of issues.
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We need a Federal law making it illegal to redistrict in a way that favors one party or another intentionally or unintentionally. States can still draw their districts how they want (which I understand is a constitutional right) but they have to make sure they aren't doing so to tip the balance one way or another.
 
plagiarize said:
We need a Federal law making it illegal to redistrict in a way that favors one party or another intentionally or unintentionally. States can still draw their districts how they want (which I understand is a constitutional right) but they have to make sure they aren't doing so to tip the balance one way or another.
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Is there an active case making its way to the Supreme Court? Because that's the only way I could see something like that getting done.
 
Wilsongt said:
#alllivesmatters is cropping up on my Facebook again. I don't think so people are aware...
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The only stuff on #alllivesmatter I see on my feed are from people saying that it's stupid. At least among my peer group I think it's reached Starbucks red cup-level feel-good outrage at this point.
 
Qwerty710710 said:
For ome reason Democrats don't vote in mid terms.
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Pretty sure it's a combination of things, but at least in part because liberal voters tend to be younger and are potentially less experienced with when and why they should vote. Also, I think it's probably related to that whole "Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love" thing. Without the magnetic presidential candidate to vote for, some Dems just don't find the time. Gotta find a way to incite those passions without daydreams of putting that special someone in the White House coming into it.
 
Ophelion said:
Pretty sure it's a combination of things, but at least in part because liberal voters tend to be younger and are potentially less experienced with when and why they should vote. Also, I think it's probably related to that whole "Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love" thing. Without the magnetic presidential candidate to vote for, some Dems just don't find the time. Gotta find a way to incite those passions without daydreams of putting that special someone in the White House coming into it.
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Bolded was definitely true for me in college. I knew 2008/2012 were important and I voted, but in 2010 I didn't think about it, I assumed the presidential elections were the important parts and that's all I needed to worry about voting in. Learned my lesson by the time 2014 came around, but... I was a young ignorant kid and we've got to find a way to reach the younger and less involved voters.

I love that Samantha Bee has made a big deal out of "2010 midterms being the most important election of your lifetime and you didn't vote", I want to see more of that.=
 
ampere said:
Bolded was definitely true for me in college. I knew 2008/2012 were important and I voted, but in 2010 I didn't think about it, I assumed the presidential elections were the important parts and that's all I needed to worry about voting in. Learned my lesson by the time 2014 came around, but... I was a young ignorant kid and we've got to find a way to reach the younger and less involved voters.

I love that Samantha Bee has made a big deal out of "2010 midterms being the most important election of your lifetime and you didn't vote", I want to see more of that.=
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She noted that, due to this pattern, we need a liberal Supreme Court as a check on all of the bullshit coming from GOP-dominated state-level governments.. just about made me scream aloud at work. So rare that you actually see someone point this out on television.
 
Rush Limbaugh also likes to focus on midterm election results, citing landslide Republican wins at the state level in 2010/2014, while wilfully ignoring national election results during years where Democrats show up.

It fits his narrative that Conservatisim is America's only way forward and most favoured by the people.
 
Grief.exe said:
Rush Limbaugh also likes to focus on midterm election results showing landslide Republican wins at the state level, while wilfully ignoring national election results during years where Democrats show up.

It fits his narrative that Conservatisim is the countries only way forward and most favoured by the people.
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Didn't Democrats crush the popular vote in the House even while not winning a majority in 2014?
 
ampere said:
Bolded was definitely true for me in college. I knew 2008/2012 were important and I voted, but in 2010 I didn't think about it, I assumed the presidential elections were the important parts and that's all I needed to worry about voting in. Learned my lesson by the time 2014 came around, but... I was a young ignorant kid and we've got to find a way to reach the younger and less involved voters.

I love that Samantha Bee has made a big deal out of "2010 midterms being the most important election of your lifetime and you didn't vote", I want to see more of that.=
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It works better in Washington state. I don't have to be conscious of what's coming up or when. I just get mailed a ballot full of stuff to vote on every so often, I vote on it, send it back in and bob's your uncle. Should be that easy (or even easier if possible) everywhere.

I distinctly remember sitting at my kitchen table, patiently googling every single candidate and proposition on the ballot in 2010, well into the night so that I could make sure I wasn't getting tricked somehow into voting for something (or someone) that could damage my community.
 
I just had this realization on Reddit when I was arguing with someone. I hadn't fully realized the significance of winning this election until I spelled it out for myself:
It isn't emotional or irrational. The thing is, if the Republican's win this election they control all facets of that check and balance system. They will have the House, Senate, Presidency, and Supreme Court. It will seriously be an entirely Republican run government with no way to control them for at least 4 years (the open senate seats in 2018 are mostly democrats).
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Grief.exe said:
Rush Limbaugh also likes to focus on midterm election results, citing landslide Republican wins at the state level in 2010/2014, while wilfully ignoring national election results during years where Democrats show up.

It fits his narrative that Conservatisim is America's only way forward and most favoured by the people.
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A bit of a tangent, but is Rush relevant anymore?
 
HylianTom said:
She noted that, due to this pattern, we need a liberal Supreme Court as a check on all of the bullshit coming from GOP-dominated state-level governments.. just about made me scream aloud at work. So rare that you actually see someone point this out on television.
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That's why she's the best
 
thestopsign said:
I just had this realization on Reddit when I was arguing with someone. I hadn't fully realized the significance of winning this election until I spelled it out for myself:
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That's what's truly horrifying. People who don't necessarily buy into trump say people will keep him in line but who will keep the house and Senate in line. The only thing standing between some of the crazy bills that would come out of the house would be the filibuster.
 
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