• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2016 |OT7| Notorious R.B.G. Plans NZ Tour

Status
Not open for further replies.

Subtle

Member
I'm not even sure what you're arguing.

That instead the majority voting bloc, a more diverse constituency, one that more closely resembles the Democratic coalition that wins elections, who have chosen a nominee... should be disregarded?

To humour young angry white guys that refuse to switch into GE mode.

Because they'll revolt or something.

No, I'm saying that they're more substantial than people here are saying they are. Those people just don't go away. Obviously, Hillary's platform should be what the DNC uses a basis moving forward, but certain things Bernie wants, like reforming the primary process, should be taken seriously. At least to make the process seem more fair and to make it easier to vote.

I'll be quick to admit this is my first election. Maybe young people get angry every election, and their target just changes every election. Seeing the state of income inequality in our country, I don't feel like these people will just forget all the rhetoric Bernie's been spewing for the past half year and that ignoring them will just make them angrier. Or maybe I'm accidentally believing there's an actual (small) political revolution at hand, when in reality this happens every four years. I don't know.

edit: I think the reason he won't endorse Clinton is because he thinks his "political revolution" has staying power. He doesn't want to undermine that, so instead of helping beat Trump by endorsing Clinton, he'll help beat him by opposing him directly. I don't think he'll make much of an impact in that regard once the media moves on tho.
 

pigeon

Banned
I meant that as in Trump used the anger of the white working class to propel him to victory. So I guess the lesson here is that if the DNC is not incompetent, they can ignore certain vocal groups if they don't have voting power? Especially since they vote more based on symbolic representation and not policy they actually agree with?

I have no idea what this means, really.

Yes, in a democracy, voting blocs that cannot convince others to support their policy goals are in practice disregarded.
 

Gruco

Banned
He doesn't have more than 1900 delegates on Google? He's 19 short of that.

Also seriously why does anyone give a shit about the "platform" as if it's going to matter.

If he had either a brain or integrity he'd get the fuck over the platform and start fundraising and campaigning for a better congress.

"50 state strategy" says man that dismissed 20 of the 50 states.

Bernie has nothing beyond catchphrases.
Wow. Spoken just like a millionaire and/or billionaire and/or shill who destroyed our economy. Wall Street. Political Revolution in this country.
It doesn't matter. He is not relevant.

The following people will also not be endorsing Hillary Clinton: Hulk Hogan, Randy Pitchford, Barney the Dinosaur, Latoya Jackson, Janet Jackson, Jack from Will & Grace, Will, Grace, and Bartolo Colon.

fucking fatty Colon and his bullshit purity tests.
 
Rachel made a good point tonight. Under Trump's policies, the Mayor of London couldn't come to the US, but he wants to invite Kim Jong Un.

L O fucking L
 

Maengun1

Member
Sigh. Berns can say "Donald Trump is evil, we must stop Donald Trump" nonstop, but IMO every day that passes when he won't say "Hillary won, I lost (and not because everything is rigged against me), vote for Hillary" he's undermining her candidacy and doing more harm than good. Every day.

I don't think it's likely to change the result, but he's not helping the margin.
 

pigeon

Banned
No, I'm saying that they're more substantial than people here are saying they are. Those people just don't go away. Obviously, Hillary's platform should be what the DNC uses a basis moving forward, but certain things Bernie wants, like reforming the primary process, should be taken seriously. At least to make the process seem more fair and to make it easier to vote.

I'll be quick to admit this is my first election. Maybe young people get angry every election, and their target just changes every election. Seeing the state of income inequality in our country, I don't feel like these people will just forget all the rhetoric Bernie's been spewing for the past half year and that ignoring them will just make them angrier. Or maybe I'm accidentally believing there's an actual (small) political revolution at hand, when in reality this happens every four years. I don't know.

As somebody who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000, I favor the theory that young people generally exist in a constant state of believing the system is corrupt and both sides are the same.

But sure, I mean, I'm not saying we should ignore them. But that also doesn't mean doing exactly what they want. We should probably just do the stuff we were planning to do which will make their lives better, right? Presumably that's what they want, at a fundamental level.
 

Zornack

Member
Sigh. Berns can say "Donald Trump is evil, we must stop Donald Trump" nonstop, but IMO every day that passes when he won't say "Hillary won, I lost (and not because everything is rigged against me), vote for Hillary" he's undermining her candidacy and doing more harm than good. Every day.

I don't think it's likely to change the result, but he's not helping the margin.

Yup. You can't pledge to do everything you can to stop Trump whole also refusing to concede and endorse Trump's opponent. Those are mutualy exclusive positions. He needs to do pick and do one or shut up.
 

Subtle

Member
I have no idea what this means, really.

Yes, in a democracy, voting blocs that cannot convince others to support their policy goals are in practice disregarded.

Yeah you put it much better than I did. And if Bernie's camp were ever going to convince people, it was this election. So now the only thing left is for their movement to die off slowly. Okay, I'm done talking about Bernie. Carry on. You can talk about how dumb brits are now lol
 
No, I'm saying that they're more substantial than people here are saying they are. Those people just don't go away. Obviously, Hillary's platform should be what the DNC uses a basis moving forward, but certain things Bernie wants, like reforming the primary process, should be taken seriously. At least to make the process seem more fair and to make it easier to vote.

I'll be quick to admit this is my first election. Maybe young people get angry every election, and their target just changes every election. Seeing the state of income inequality in our country, I don't feel like these people will just forget all the rhetoric Bernie's been spewing for the past half year and that ignoring them will just make them angrier. Or maybe I'm accidentally believing there's an actual (small) political revolution at hand, when in reality this happens every four years. I don't know.

edit: I think the reason he won't endorse Clinton is because he thinks his "political revolution" has staying power. He doesn't want to undermine that, so instead of helping beat Trump by endorsing Clinton, he'll help beat him by opposing him directly. I don't think he'll make much of an impact in that regard once the media moves on tho.
The revolucion will be nowhere to be seen in two years when there's midterm voting. It nowhere to be seen now in downticket races. It let Scott Walker's shitty gay hating judge win in Wisconsin.

And as noted before by others; Hillary Clinton is not going to consult whatever platform comes out of the convention when she decides what to sign. Nothing in the platform is coming to a vote without Dem congressional control anyway.

While the things he wants are either spite (DWS) beyond the scope of the party (same day registration which is up to states) or would have implications he hasn't even thought about (one party only of the two mandating open primaries.)

The process was the same process Barack Obama won with. It was fair. He lost fairly. By millions of votes.
 

Crayons

Banned
How can I politely tell all my Berniebro Facebook friends that if they don't vote for Hillary in the general they're a cunt?
 

Iolo

Member
I'll be quick to admit this is my first election. Maybe young people get angry every election, and their target just changes every election. Seeing the state of income inequality in our country, I don't feel like these people will just forget all the rhetoric Bernie's been spewing for the past half year and that ignoring them will just make them angrier. Or maybe I'm accidentally believing there's an actual (small) political revolution at hand, when in reality this happens every four years. I don't know.

Let me name a few recent names, see if you recognize any.

Jerry Brown
Bill Bradley
Howard Dean

All liberal favorites, all youth favorites, fervently. Brown never conceded to Clinton, but supports Clinton now. Dean was forced out due to media bullshit, which I never totally forgave them for. Bradley had to drop out relatively quickly.

I honestly believe the main difference between then and now is that crowdfunding and social media has changed the landscape. Only, I had thought unlimited money from SuperPACs would contribute to zombie campaigns, when it turns out it was the Kickstarter model that did it.
 

olympia

Member
no mention of bernie in the hourly news update from npr, lol. they sure did mention trump's condemnation of the afl-cio though
 

3phemeral

Member
So, am I missing something in assuming that when Bernie refers to "fighting against the entire establishment along the way," that he means super delegates endorsing Hillary early? I wasn't satisfied with the answers I was given in that Bernie pretends-to-concede thread (some example of the UK labour MP experiencing obstructionism from the right). Judging by the context of the following lines, he states "we took on the virtually entire political establishment" followed by "to those relatively few elected officials who had the courage to stand with us." The only valid matches to the former statement I can think of are super delegates declaring their early endorsements to Hillary, considering how proclamations of "fraud" and "rigged" end up being either thrown out of court or nonsense. I can only assume "courage to stand with us" were those who endorsed him.

I do feel like I am overlooking something, though.
 
No, I'm saying that they're more substantial than people here are saying they are. Those people just don't go away. Obviously, Hillary's platform should be what the DNC uses a basis moving forward, but certain things Bernie wants, like reforming the primary process, should be taken seriously. At least to make the process seem more fair and to make it easier to vote.

I'll be quick to admit this is my first election. Maybe young people get angry every election, and their target just changes every election. Seeing the state of income inequality in our country, I don't feel like these people will just forget all the rhetoric Bernie's been spewing for the past half year and that ignoring them will just make them angrier. Or maybe I'm accidentally believing there's an actual (small) political revolution at hand, when in reality this happens every four years. I don't know.

edit: I think the reason he won't endorse Clinton is because he thinks his "political revolution" has staying power. He doesn't want to undermine that, so instead of helping beat Trump by endorsing Clinton, he'll help beat him by opposing him directly. I don't think he'll make much of an impact in that regard once the media moves on tho.

The issue is, the things that Bernie's supporters claim to want are the same things that Hillary wants too. She wants to raise the minimum wage, but maybe not to $15 an hour everywhere. (However if congress does that, she will sign it without question or hesitation.) She wants to lower health care costs...but what Bernie is offering isn't feasible because we don't have the votes in congress, and we cannot just start over because of reasons. Hillary wants to get rid of Citizens United, probably more than anyone else.

The problem is Bernie has done an amazing job at making the perfect the enemy of the good. He has convinced a bunch of (mostly) young people that everything that's not 100% what Bernie is spewing is somehow corrupt or not progressive. That is his revolution at the moment.

I don't mean this in a condescending way, but we cannot give into people who are acting like petulent children. Everything is not rigged when you lose. Sometimes, you know, you just lose. Because Bernie's supporters tend to be younger and newer to the process, I don't think they full yappreciate the fact that you can legitimately lose in politics. Like, even if you think you're 100% right, other people don't. And the way to move your agenda forward is to compromise, which doesn't mean giving Bernie everything he wants.

Some of his demands don't even deserve consideration because they're either impossible or just vindictive. Those things we need to shoot down hard and fast on principle.
 

Subtle

Member
Let me name a few recent names, see if you recognize any.

Jerry Brown
Bill Bradley
Howard Dean

All liberal favorites, all youth favorites, fervently. Brown never conceded to Clinton, but supports Clinton now. Dean was forced out due to media bullshit, which I never totally forgave them for. Bradley had to drop out relatively quickly.

I honestly believe the main difference between then and now is that crowdfunding and social media has changed the landscape. Only, I had thought unlimited money from SuperPACs would contribute to zombie campaigns, when it turns out it was the Kickstarter model that did it.

Point taken. I guess "This time it's different" is never true.

edit: Would she really sign a bill that increased the minimum wage to $15? I was under the impression that it would devastate the economies of smaller states.
 
How can I politely tell all my Berniebro Facebook friends that if they don't vote for Hillary in the general they're a cunt?

I'd been very tolerant of some of them over the past couple months, but I cut loose a few who called Elizabeth Warren a "traitor" this past week.

Nope. Nooooo. Bye to them.
 

Crayons

Banned
I'd been very tolerant of some of them over the past couple months, but I cut loose a few who called Elizabeth Warren a "traitor" this past week.

Nope. Nooooo. Bye to them.

I've seen a few of those people on Bernie Sanders FB posts but none of my friends have said that, if any of them dare betray my beautiful Elizabeth I'm going to lose my shit!
 

royalan

Member
How absolutely disrespectful Bernie has been to Hillary all primary is infuriating enough.

But after she's beaten him soundly, to not even acknowledge her win. Not even congratulate her on her campaign. To continue to insist that you have a moral mandate to impose your platform onto her candidacy for president after you LOST.

Bernie is a child throwing a tantrum. And you don't give into children throwing tantrums. You put them on time-out.

Don't give Bernie a goddamn thing. Nobody cares about him at this point. He's squandered his leverage, and at this point the disrespect is off the charts.
 
I've seen a few of those people on Bernie Sanders FB posts but none of my friends have said that, if any of them dare betray my beautiful Elizabeth I'm going to lose my shit!

I could understand when people get caught up in a heated primary battle and say intensely negative things about a candidate they don't support. It's not pretty, but primary battles sometimes get nasty. I get it. I remember 2008.

But some of the most hardcore Bernie supporters really are going all-in with purity tests and making enemies of anyone who dares to not support their preferred candidate is where I draw the line. Calling somebody like Elizabeth Warren (Elizabeth freakin' Warren!) all manner of horrible words because she endorsed Hillary is just beyond crass, and beyond acceptable.
 

Holmes

Member
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/743627214923632644

tumblr_inline_o4fkpooPpW1ryt3ks_500.gif
 

Effect

Member
Just had a thought. What does Sanders do now? Hillary and Trump will be having rallies in different parts of the country. Hillary is controlling the DNC now and getting ready for the convention. She's running ads now and fully in general election mode.

Does Bernie keep holding rallies himself even though there are no more primaries and he simply don't take the L and move on? If he does hold another rally does he get completely ignored by the media?
 
Just had a thought. What does Sanders do now? Hillary and Trump will be having rallies in different parts of the country. Hillary is controlling the DNC now and getting ready for the convention. She's running ads now and fully in general election mode.

Does Bernie keep holding rallies himself since there are no more primaries and he simply don't take the L and move on? If he does hold another rally does he get completely ignored by the media?

I suspect there will be more streaming video addresses before July 25.
 

Iolo

Member
Just had a thought. What does Sanders do now? Hillary and Trump will be having rallies in different parts of the country. Hillary is controlling the DNC now and getting ready for the convention. She's running ads now and fully in general election mode.

Does Bernie keep holding rallies himself even though there are no more primaries and he simply don't take the L and move on? If he does hold another rally does he get completely ignored by the media?

It's possible he doesn't have the money to hold any more rallies.
 

pigeon

Banned
Contrary to many angry posters, I think Bernie is pretty important for his demonstrated ability to harness small donors into a fundraising machine that can run near the level of other candidates. That is, actually, a pretty important and impressive feat. We should learn to do that for the DNC.
 

royalan

Member
Contrary to many angry posters, I think Bernie is pretty important for his demonstrated ability to harness small donors into a fundraising machine that can run near the level of other candidates. That is, actually, a pretty important and impressive feat. We should learn to do that for the DNC.

Where are them May numbers tho?

Frankly, if raising the amount of money Bernie has involves flat out lying to your voters about your campaign, your opponent's campaign, your chances, the feasibility of your ideas, and how our very government even functions...if it involves convincing your voters that the boogieman is waiting to steal their souls behind every corner and only YOU can save them...he can keep that fundraising strategy and take it back to Vermont. We have an entire party in shambles due to the very same strategies Bernie employed running amok for decades. I don't want to see any form of it creep into the only party in this country that's shown some goddamn sense in the last few years. #ByeByeBernie
 

ampere

Member
Contrary to many angry posters, I think Bernie is pretty important for his demonstrated ability to harness small donors into a fundraising machine that can run near the level of other candidates. That is, actually, a pretty important and impressive feat. We should learn to do that for the DNC.

The fundraising was impressive, but he was pretty terrible at effective spending and management.

So... the populist message of "Revolution!" and "Us vs Them!" was very inspiring to a lot of people, but he didn't have the pragmatism of Obama so it was basically just fundraising for the purpose of more fundraising
 
Contrary to many angry posters, I think Bernie is pretty important for his demonstrated ability to harness small donors into a fundraising machine that can run near the level of other candidates. That is, actually, a pretty important and impressive feat. We should learn to do that for the DNC.

I mean, it's impressive, but it is all that different from what Obama did in '08, only better because of thinks like social media being a bigger thing? Throw in a populist change message and there ya' go.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom