• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2015-2016 |OT3| If someone named PhoenixDark leaves your party, call the cops

Status
Not open for further replies.

johnsmith

remember me
Is it just me or are Bernie bros starting to seem like gamergaters? They're going after Paul freaking Krugman now, of all people.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/health-wonks-and-bernie-bros/
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/wonks-and-minions/
Right now I’m getting the kind of correspondence I usually get from Rush Limbaugh listeners, although this time it’s from the left — I’m a crook, I’m a Hillary crony, etc., etc.. OK, been there before — back in 2008 I was even the subject of tales about my son working for the Clintons, which was surprising because I don’t have a son.
 
Is it just me or are Bernie bros starting to seem like gamergaters? They're going after Paul freaking Krugman now, of all people.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/health-wonks-and-bernie-bros/
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/wonks-and-minions/

Jeb Lund's crew of dumbasses on Twitter were actually harassing Brianna Wu a few days ago (Because Brianna likes Hillary) to the point where Twitter actually permabanned several Berniebros with high follower counts. Jeb Lund and the rest were outraged.

Another popular Berniebro mere inches away from gendered or racial slurs.

https://twitter.com/Lowenaffchen/status/689212844924137478
https://twitter.com/Lowenaffchen/status/691664741249323014
 
Some Bernie stans that are journalists got together to harass a woman who thought that Bernie stans were being assholes and honestly these guys are horrible:

CZrt1yfWIAE-j5C.png

Yeah, I've been following Jeong on Twitter for quite a while now and that whole thing has been quite a shit show.
 
Is it just me or are Bernie bros starting to seem like gamergaters? They're going after Paul freaking Krugman now, of all people.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/health-wonks-and-bernie-bros/
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/wonks-and-minions/

Passion can manifest itself in unhealthy ways. Any movement that attracts fanatics is going to have its share of people who take it WAY too far. I still think we're a few solid months of death threats short of fervent Berniestans being anywhere near as toxic as Gamergate.

Jeb Lund's crew of dumbasses on Twitter were actually harassing Brianna Wu a few days ago (Because Brianna likes Hillary) to the point where Twitter actually permabanned several Berniebros with high follower counts. Jeb Lund and the rest were outraged.

https://twitter.com/Lowenaffchen/status/689212844924137478
https://twitter.com/Lowenaffchen/status/691664741249323014

Or maybe it's begun... God dammit, liberals, this is why we can't have nice things.
 
#GG was just a harassment campaign with nothing else going for it and almost everyone that supported it was a fucking asshole. Meanwhile, the majority of Bernie fans are cool people.

Bernie stans/Berniebros though... This Berniebro I know at college keeps bringing up the "epidemic" of false rape accusations.

"I have to transport a mattress for a co-worker since he doesn't have a truck."
"Mattress? Like this woman that filled a false rape accusation and then carried her mattress around?"

Yes, this literally happened today.
 

Holmes

Member
Yes, this is what happens when white, heterosexual males that are younger than 25 become a vocal and powerful part of a movement.
 
The black woman who posted about Hillary's LoveTrumpsHate sticker on the Democratic students association at my school got crucified in the comments.

"For god's sake if you're going to be a college-aged democrat, don't support a neo-conservative warmonger like Hillz who will only carry on the homicdal policies of Obama and Bush."

This primary is gonna be a long one.
 

Kangi

Member
Jeb Lund's crew of dumbasses on Twitter were actually harassing Brianna Wu a few days ago (Because Brianna likes Hillary) to the point where Twitter actually permabanned several Berniebros with high follower counts. Jeb Lund and the rest were outraged.

Another popular Berniebro mere inches away from gendered or racial slurs.

https://twitter.com/Lowenaffchen/status/689212844924137478
https://twitter.com/Lowenaffchen/status/691664741249323014

This is only going to get worse, isn't it?

Seriously, the the Bernie supporters in the OT are full steam ahead in engaging in some disgusting sexism in multiple threads.

This isn't surprising.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
Seriously, the the Bernie supporters in the OT are full steam ahead in engaging in some disgusting sexism in multiple threads.

never forget:

http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=191552798&postcount=18

Also the first time a woman candidate is heavily favored to be president. What a coincidence.

Bernie has long been advocating for women's rights, including reproductive rights, paid family leave, healthcare for mothers, and yes, expanding Planned Parenthood. But of course no one takes Bernie seriously because he is a man.

Reverse sexism at its finest.

What a lying bitch. She don't want universal health care.

Obama, Clinton, Bush, etc are all cut from the same corporate mold.

They say different things but at the end of the day the result is the same, less money for us, more money for rich corporations.

It's all about using your money and giving it to military corporations.

I for one am tired of that.

A vote for Hillary is a vote for the Reagan era

Well given the fact that Clinton is going to get derailed in October when she testifies again about lying under oath (a favorite Clinton past time...) I say hand the torch to Bernie now and be done with it. She is as delusional as Donald Trump if she thinks she will get the nomination.

I wonder if any Hilary supporters will actually read that. Probably not, as it would be too damaging to their worldview.

Clinton isn't just a bad choice for president. She's a monster. Completely self-serving and amoral. A pretty good example of the kind of frankly grotesque character it takes to be a career politician these days and prop up a system as deeply corrupt and broken as our current one. Admittedly, she is just one viper in a fairly large nest, but only someone woefully misinformed or deluded or sociopathic should be voting for her.

And people wonder why I make the argument Hillary is a Republican placating faux-leftist.

If she gets the nod I'll print a T-shirt that says 'Hillary '16 at least were getting f*cked by a democrat'

You better hope he wins, because if Hillary wins I'm voting for Trump.

Yes, i went there. If a person is going to throw their sword down to support someone like Hillary over the facts, who is the very nature of the beast called money in politics, i will say that principles are not something that person has.

Unless said person is coming mentally clean into the voting season thinking that everyone is just playing fair and there's no such thing as influencing factors like special interest money, or corporate favors, or media narratives based on who owns what and has stakes in who, i will say that voting for Hillary or the GOP right now is essentially perpetuating a system of governance that turns ever closer towards fascism and oligarchy.

I. am. not. kidding.
 
I'm kind of curious the extent to which people are also willing to believe that the existence of her political prop daughter Chelsea Clinton in itself is really just a political ploy 35 years in the making, along with her oh so convenient granddaughter and now second campaign stunt pregnancy.
 
I'm kind of curious the extent to which people are also willing to believe that the existence of her political prop daughter Chelsea Clinton in itself is really just a political ploy 35 years in the making, along with her oh so convenient granddaughter and now second campaign stunt pregnancy.

The thing that gets me about this...is the Clinton's are so evil and cunning and smart...they plan everything in advance.....but she does something stupid with an email server to jeopardize the whole thing?

It just baffles me.
 

teiresias

Member
I've noticed some comments for sure. Shame. Instead of just criticizing her and some policies we get some really unnecessary remarks about her gender or related. Feel bad for the supporters who do indeed do criticize her ties to Wall St. and argue in good faith.

I definitely wasted my time in that Trump thread.

Some comments? There are pretty much two threads right now that are nothing but sexist assaults on her.
 

Iolo

Member
The thing that gets me about this...is the Clinton's are so evil and cunning and smart...they plan everything in advance.....but she does something stupid with an email server to jeopardize the whole thing?

It just baffles me.

Same mentality that can simultaneously call Obama a power-mad dictator and a feckless weakling...
 
The thing that gets me about this...is the Clinton's are so evil and cunning and smart...they plan everything in advance.....but she does something stupid with an email server to jeopardize the whole thing?

It just baffles me.

These are the same type of people susceptible to Alex Jones and 9/11 truthers, to GMO foods is mind control, moon landing is fake, etc.

They aren't folks capable of proper reasoning skills.
 

Racists and old people.

I hit my limit for free articles apparently. Can you post excerpts/summary?
The PEPS follows prior research and measures resentment toward African Americans and immigrants with statements like “blacks could be just as well off as whites if they only tried harder” and “it bothers me when I come in contact with immigrants who speak little or no English.” It also contains a measure of ethnocentrism developed by Donald Kinder and Cindy Kam, which compares how favorably respondents rated whites to how favorably they rated minority groups.

Finally, the PEPS included questions about taxes, the minimum wage, government health care, big business and labor unions — which together form a reliable measure of economic liberalism.

Most striking is how each of these measures strongly correlates with support for Trump. The graph below shows that Trump performs best among Americans who express more resentment toward African Americans and immigrants and who tend to evaluate whites more favorably than minority groups.
It appears from the PEPS data, then, that the Trump coalition unites resentment of minority groups with support for economically progressive policies.

That is also the takeaway from a collection of 19 surveys that have been conducted by YouGov every week or every other week between June 13 and Jan. 19. Each of those surveys asked its respondents to rate how important the issues of immigration and Social Security were to them.

The graph below shows that Trump’s support throughout the past several months has been particularly strong among Republicans who think that both immigration and Social Security are “very important.” GOP voters who prioritize both issues are now about 40 points more likely to support Trump than Republicans who did not prioritize either.
These findings also support the idea that Trump’s appeal mirrors Nixonian populism’s blend of racial conservatism with tacit support for the welfare state — a blend often seen in Europe’s right-wing populist parties as well as the presidential bid of George Wallace.

Of course, Trump does not always take liberal positions on economic issues. He opposes raising the minimum wage and has proposed a massive tax cut on high incomes. Yet Trump has repeatedly bucked conservative orthodoxy on such issues as protecting Social Security and Medicare, campaign finance reform, governmental health insurance, infrastructure spending and free trade.

Nevertheless, economically progressive positions, combined with Trump’s harsh rhetoric about minority groups, seem to have created a powerful populist coalition that has made Trump the front-runner heading into the Iowa caucuses.
 

Gonna call huge levels of shenanigans with their description of medicare for all (which definitely has a lot of details left out but the rationing healthcare and cry for savings is not very accurate). Also not sure if I believe the financial system is fully reformed and awesome yet.

To expand, insurance companies already ration a ton, and the rationing the author speaks of in europe is actually super generous, very few treatments would be denied and they would have to have a horrific cost/benefit (like 6 figures for maybe a few months of life or something around that). Doctor reimbursements in america are the highest in the world so some correction would happen but the move away from fee for service and ability to negotiate for pricing of drugs/supplies would also be big.
 

Holmes

Member
Gonna call huge levels of shenanigans with their description of medicare for all (which definitely has a lot of details left out but the rationing healthcare and cry for savings is not very accurate). Also not sure if I believe the financial system is fully reformed and awesome yet.

To expand, insurance companies already ration a ton, and the rationing the author speaks of in europe is actually super generous, very few treatments would be denied and they would have to have a horrific cost/benefit (like 6 figures for maybe a few months of life or something around that). Doctor reimbursements in america are the highest in the world so some correction would happen but the move away from fee for service and ability to negotiate for pricing of drugs/supplies would also be big.
Yeah, I don't think that the financial sector is fully reformed either, but I guess if you compare it to how it was before, it's much better. Still more to be done. But their final 2-3 paragraphs are spot on.
 
Yeah, I don't think that the financial sector is fully reformed either, but I guess if you compare it to how it was before, it's much better. Still more to be done. But their final 2-3 paragraphs are spot on.

I thought all his proposals were revenue neutral? Also he doesn't say he will bring a revolution just that there needs to be one, this article seems very nit picky. Hit Sanders on real issues, not distorted ones.
 
I thought all his proposals were revenue neutral? Also he doesn't say he will bring a revolution just that there needs to be one, this article seems very nit picky. Hit Sanders on real issues, not distorted ones.

I doubt they're actually revenue neutral.

Mind you, that doesn't bother me as I'm totally down with increased deficit spending right now.
 
I doubt they're actually revenue neutral.

Mind you, that doesn't bother me as I'm totally down with increased deficit spending right now.

Well all his taxes were made to exactly offset the supposed costs so he seems to actually care about deficits (perhaps he could have been more financially liberal in funding his schemes in order to not say hes raising taxes on those below 250k but i guess a 3% tax is too much lol).
 
Well all his taxes were made to exactly offset the supposed costs so he seems to actually care about deficits (perhaps he could have been more financially liberal in funding his schemes in order to not say hes raising taxes on those below 250k but i guess a 3% tax is too much lol).

Yeah, but he's probably using some weird math like the GOP does with dynamic scoring to make it work.

Like, he's probably assuming that by raising taxes, nobody's behavior is affected at all. And that would be a poor assumption.

And yes, he shouldn't be raising taxes on people earning below $250k. Even if it means "it pays for healthcare," or whatever else. It's nice that people would be getting more bang for their buck but you know how we get more bang for our buck? Not raising taxes.

How about raising taxes on the wealthy, cutting taxes on the middle class, and still offering the same benefits! Why are we proposing to raise taxes on people whose wages haven't gone up in years but costs still go up?

Go full progressive, Bernie. Not this half assed shit. And not something so open to attack.
 
Yeah, but he's probably using some weird math like the GOP does with dynamic scoring to make it work.

Like, he's probably assuming that by raising taxes, nobody's behavior is affected at all. And that would be a poor assumption.

And yes, he shouldn't be raising taxes on people earning below $250k. Even if it means "it pays for healthcare," or whatever else. It's nice that people would be getting more bang for their buck but you know how we get more bang for our buck? Not raising taxes.

How about raising taxes on the wealthy, cutting taxes on the middle class, and still offering the same benefits! Why are we proposing to raise taxes on people whose wages haven't gone up in years but costs still go up?

Go full progressive, Bernie. Not this half assed shit. And not something so open to attack.

I agree completely on all points but I guess bernie doesn't want to destroy the deficit. Would be nice, and while we are at it throw some pocket change at NIH and research (why in trump's name is research spending so low? makes no sense).
 
I agree completely on all points but I guess bernie doesn't want to destroy the deficit. Would be nice, and while we are at it throw some pocket change at NIH and research (why in trump's name is research spending so low? makes no sense).

Politically or personally? If it's the former, who cares? Every GOPer is proposing tax cuts that will blow it up just as much if not more, so he can basically say "we can increase the deficit by cutting rich people's taxes or we can raise their taxes and give everyone benefits."

If it's personally, then I disagree with his economic views and I find that a bad thing and can't trust his policy making decisions much.

edit: I guess with the former he has to against Hillary. But in the general I'd hope he'd abandon it, at least. There's really no point given the GOP tax proposals.
 
This '93 article on Hillary is so strange.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/23/magazine/saint-hillary.html?pagewanted=all

"Some years ago, I gave a series of talks about the underlying priniciples of Methodism," she goes on. "I talked a lot about how timeless a lot of scriptural lessons were because they tied in with what we now know about human beings. If you break down the Golden Rule or if you take Christ's commandment -- Love thy neighbor as thyself -- there is an underlying assumption that you will value yourself, that you will be a responsible being who will live by certain behaviors that enable you to have self-respect, because, then, out of that self-respect comes the capacity for you to respect and care for other people.

"And how do we just break this whole enterprise down in small enough pieces? Well, somebody says to themselves: 'You know, I'm not going to tell that racist, sexist joke. I don't want to objectify another human being. Why do I want to do that? What do I get out of that kind of action? Maybe I should try to restrain myself.'

"Or somebody else says: 'You know, I'm going to start thanking the woman who cleans the restroom in the building that I work in. You know, maybe that sounds kind of stupid, but on the other hand I want to start seeing her as a human being.'

"And then maybe the next step is I say to myself: 'How much are we paying this woman who works the 3 to 11 shift. And who's taking care of her kids while she's here working? And how do we make it possible for her to be able to both be a good parent and perform a necessary function?'

"And these are little pieces, and a lot of those little pieces can be done on a very small scale that then aggregates. So I think what we're basically, what we're really looking at is, you know, millions and millions of changes in individual behavior that are motivated by the same impulses, even if we're not doing a very good job of describing them."

This rambling passage seems to validate The New Republic's impertinence. What does it all mean? This is, as it turns out, a fair question. The meaning of the politics of meaning is hard to discern under the gauzy and gushy wrappings of New Age jargon that blanket it. Michael Lerner, who has been expounding on the subject for several years in the pages of Tikkun, a magazine of liberal Jewish thinking, has described the new politics as all about "how to build a society based on love and connection, a society in which the bottom line would not be profit and power but ethical and spiritual sensitivity and a sense of community, mutual caring and responsibility."

There's some stuff absolutely worth criticizing Hillary on here, but the NYT and New Republic were blasting her for very reasonable ideas that have become the backbone of ideological belief for college-aged liberals... who hate Hillary... It's so odd.
 
Politically or personally? If it's the former, who cares? Every GOPer is proposing tax cuts that will blow it up just as much if not more, so he can basically say "we can increase the deficit by cutting rich people's taxes or we can raise their taxes and give everyone benefits."

If it's personally, then I disagree with his economic views and I find that a bad thing and can't trust his policy making decisions much.

edit: I guess with the former he has to against Hillary. But in the general I'd hope he'd abandon it, at least. There's really no point given the GOP tax proposals.

I mean the GOP tax proposals are all total jokes and you know they would call him out on deficit spending too, its a damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda thing.
 
Wait, where is Fiorina getting that money from? Does she actually have campaign funds?
She's rich AF.
Yeh, I know that. But she made it sound like it would be from her campaign, rather than her personal fortune. Is she really going to throw 2M or whatever of her own money towards a single appearance against him as if it will mean anything.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom