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STARFIELD |OT| 2023: A Space Toddity

KungFucius

King Snowflake
29 hours in

Had some amazing side quests today. They were lengthy and very chunky. So many space battles and ship boarding. I don't think i will get tired of the gunplay for this, I love the punch of it all.

Liking this game more and more.
I'm feeling that way at maybe 10 hours. The quests are much better and kind of force you to care because they are complex and were clearly put together by someone who gave a shit. That said I have had problems. I have the achievement enabler mod on because I needed to no clip my way through the ground pounder quest, which would not trigger a door to open despite killing all the spacers. My video is fucked and I can't change settings outside of editing an ini. The lack of proper full screen is baffling and extremely assholish. Hey assholes, without full screen sometimes your parent company's OS runs games in 1080p windows without the option to increase res beyond that. How they could not catch that in QA is beyond me. I also get the typical bethesda jank where sometimes NPCs are talking to some random point off camera or when 2 are supposed to be talking they get positioned almost on to of eachoter because you initiated the conversation from an angle. Whatever. Gonna sneak in an hour before I have to take my kid to the bus stop.
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
I really, REALLY hate the oxygen/co2 mechanic. There’s so many places to walk and when you have to pause to “take your breath”, it just sucks.

Also, the no mini map thing is another pain in the arse.

Stamina meters are stupid but hey other games have it so why not include it our game. Equipment that reduces O2 consumption is what you need. Also one of the super powers generate your own oxygen field that insta refills your O2 to the full.
 

acm2000

Member
love the game so far, maybe 20 hours in.

do tend to keep forgetting about the main quest tho but also im glad the mining/outpost/ship building is basically optional, really cant be arsed with that faff.
 
i fell off this fuckin hard. probably going to uninstall it and come back when the expansion/DLC is out since i was stupid enough to buy the premium edition :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
Personally, I think they didn't include a map for the large cities on purpose, and that it's actually one of the best decisions they've made in a BGS game since Morrowind. I also don't expect anyone to agree with me, but that's fine.

What I've been trying to figure out is why the gameplay loop in this game is so smooth and why I haven't gotten burned out yet at all. I think it's because of this decision to not include city maps. It's a subtle, but significant distinction. That switch from following a checkpoint for large parts of the game, to using the galaxy map and trying to remember systems and planet layouts, to then returning to large cities and relying on memory and spatial awareness I think is the main loop that keeps it all going and keeps it from feeling like work to me, like so many other open world games that aren't half this large or demanding.

At the risk of over-explaining the obvious, I think it's the main thing that has elevated immersion in this world for me, and one of the main things that elevates the side quest discovery. Out in space you have segmented travel using a scanner or galaxy map, picking a landing spot or fast traveling. Then when you return to the city, you switch to the loop of it feeling like your neighborhood you're familiar with since you are forced to rely on memory instead. It reminds me of the Hades gameplay loop of going through a randomized attack level, then returning to the comforting lair that you've customized and memorized every inch of. It recharges you somehow and then you feel the urge to get back out there again.

In countless open world games I couldn't tell you where a single thing is from memory. You click it on the map, follow the icon and end up where you're going. That works, and is necessary for a lot of quests but I think that doing nothing but this is what leads to open world burnout. In contrast, I could tell you from memory where 2 dozen landmarks and stores are in New Atlantis with directions to get there. That is a totally different experience that sticks with you far longer and results in a richer game. That's what "immersion" is - literally.

Personally, I think this is also what makes so much of the quest discovery feel special. You do have periods where you're searching for something and don't know where it is. You have a destination in your head but you wander through 4 places you didn't intend to before you get there, and you have a big chance of finding a quest or two randomly before you even get there. That is part of the secret sauce as well. If you have a checkpoint on your map and you're just efficiently moving from A to B at all times, you're not mentally in the "exploration" mindset searching for something, you're in the worker mindset and may not even feel good when random quests pop up like that. I just found a quest last night in the UC Security Office right by the spaceport. I've ran past that 100x and didn't even know it was there. Then last night I finally walked up to the door to check kinda on accident and saw you could go in and there's a whole thing in there. That little dopamine hit of discovery is the whole point. The best example of this is The Well. It was probably one of the most enjoyable discoveries in the game to go down a seemingly unimportant elevator and realize there's basically a whole 2nd city hidden that you didn't even know was there. I'd be willing to bet that's when the game "clicks" for a lot of people too, because they get a big dopamine hit since they didn't know it was even there. It's the inverse of the Morrowind gameplay loop where you have maps for the city, but out in the wild you're following random directions from NPCs and using spatial awareness. Here, you have checkpoints in the wild and then spatial awareness at home. It's not an accident that this is the first game of theirs that made me feel like I did playing Morrowind.

My 2 cents anyway, I don't expect most people to agree. I think it's the kind of eccentric decision you'd only even get from a studio still lead by an auteur director. Otherwise it would just get vetoed by committee. I'm just glad Todd Howard is still actually directing, because we likely won't get many games like this.
 

SCB3

Member
Faced my first
Terramorph
and I think it glitched, it got stuck in a cage and the turrets that I was supposed to power up pinned it down whilst it literally poked it with a knife
 

Topher

Gold Member
Personally, I think they didn't include a map for the large cities on purpose, and that it's actually one of the best decisions they've made in a BGS game since Morrowind. I also don't expect anyone to agree with me, but that's fine.

What I've been trying to figure out is why the gameplay loop in this game is so smooth and why I haven't gotten burned out yet at all. I think it's because of this decision to not include city maps. It's a subtle, but significant distinction. That switch from following a checkpoint for large parts of the game, to using the galaxy map and trying to remember systems and planet layouts, to then returning to large cities and relying on memory and spatial awareness I think is the main loop that keeps it all going and keeps it from feeling like work to me, like so many other open world games that aren't half this large or demanding.

At the risk of over-explaining the obvious, I think it's the main thing that has elevated immersion in this world for me, and one of the main things that elevates the side quest discovery. Out in space you have segmented travel using a scanner or galaxy map, picking a landing spot or fast traveling. Then when you return to the city, you switch to the loop of it feeling like your neighborhood you're familiar with since you are forced to rely on memory instead. It reminds me of the Hades gameplay loop of going through a randomized attack level, then returning to the comforting lair that you've customized and memorized every inch of. It recharges you somehow and then you feel the urge to get back out there again.

In countless open world games I couldn't tell you where a single thing is from memory. You click it on the map, follow the icon and end up where you're going. That works, and is necessary for a lot of quests but I think that doing nothing but this is what leads to open world burnout. In contrast, I could tell you from memory where 2 dozen landmarks and stores are in New Atlantis with directions to get there. That is a totally different experience that sticks with you far longer and results in a richer game. That's what "immersion" is - literally.

Personally, I think this is also what makes so much of the quest discovery feel special. You do have periods where you're searching for something and don't know where it is. You have a destination in your head but you wander through 4 places you didn't intend to before you get there, and you have a big chance of finding a quest or two randomly before you even get there. That is part of the secret sauce as well. If you have a checkpoint on your map and you're just efficiently moving from A to B at all times, you're not mentally in the "exploration" mindset searching for something, you're in the worker mindset and may not even feel good when random quests pop up like that. I just found a quest last night in the UC Security Office right by the spaceport. I've ran past that 100x and didn't even know it was there. Then last night I finally walked up to the door to check kinda on accident and saw you could go in and there's a whole thing in there. That little dopamine hit of discovery is the whole point. The best example of this is The Well. It was probably one of the most enjoyable discoveries in the game to go down a seemingly unimportant elevator and realize there's basically a whole 2nd city hidden that you didn't even know was there. I'd be willing to bet that's when the game "clicks" for a lot of people too, because they get a big dopamine hit since they didn't know it was even there. It's the inverse of the Morrowind gameplay loop where you have maps for the city, but out in the wild you're following random directions from NPCs and using spatial awareness. Here, you have checkpoints in the wild and then spatial awareness at home. It's not an accident that this is the first game of theirs that made me feel like I did playing Morrowind.

My 2 cents anyway, I don't expect most people to agree. I think it's the kind of eccentric decision you'd only even get from a studio still lead by an auteur director. Otherwise it would just get vetoed by committee. I'm just glad Todd Howard is still actually directing, because we likely won't get many games like this.

Good post. I've noticed over the years that I don't remember nearly as many street names as I did when I was younger due to my dependency on GPS on my phone, that real life mini-map. Playing Starfield, I've started looking around more for landmarks and such to find my way around. Now the city of New Atlantis is almost second nature to me. Now I'm not saying I'm ready for maps to be a thing of the past. I can't imagine trying to play a game like GTA without it, but in a game like this I think it has turned out to be a decision I can appreciate even if it was a bit annoying early on.
 

mansoor1980

Member
she is gradually opening up and i keep on flirting, sarah morgan..............

04f5a295-b49e-413c-895c-ccd2ecf181d9_text.gif
 

SJRB

Gold Member
Stamina meters are stupid but hey other games have it so why not include it our game. Equipment that reduces O2 consumption is what you need. Also one of the super powers generate your own oxygen field that insta refills your O2 to the full.

The "problem" is that it is at direct odds with some of the game's other mechanics.

Hey, go check out that thing 1,200 meters away! No vehicles, can't land your ship close, so you have to walk. Or run in tiny segments. It makes something that is already tedious by nature [walk in a straight line to the location with 99/100 times zero interaction in between] even more tedious.

They did it here because they also did it in Skyrim and Fallout when in reality this could've been solved more elegantly. Again, archaic design. principles.
 

Roberts

Member
Personally, I think they didn't include a map for the large cities on purpose, and that it's actually one of the best decisions they've made in a BGS game since Morrowind. I also don't expect anyone to agree with me, but that's fine.
I totally agree. I love the idea or open world games but what happens is that at certain point in any given game, I spend more time looking at the minimap than actually what is around me.

(insert Michael Scott drives into the lake.gif)
 

Roberts

Member
Got back to main story. No spoilers but Entangled is a great mission. Clearly a homage to a certain celebrated level in a certain game that most of us loved.
 

avin

Member
Personally, I think they didn't include a map for the large cities on purpose, and that it's actually one of the best decisions they've made in a BGS game since Morrowind. I also don't expect anyone to agree with me, but that's fine.

What I've been trying to figure out is why the gameplay loop in this game is so smooth and why I haven't gotten burned out yet at all. I think it's because of this decision to not include city maps. It's a subtle, but significant distinction. That switch from following a checkpoint for large parts of the game, to using the galaxy map and trying to remember systems and planet layouts, to then returning to large cities and relying on memory and spatial awareness I think is the main loop that keeps it all going and keeps it from feeling like work to me, like so many other open world games that aren't half this large or demanding.
I think that's perceptive - or at least, I feel similarly =). Curiously, I'm also starting to really like the very basic surface maps when you're on a planet, the lack of rapid traversal options like a rover, and the reliance therefore on exploration on foot. Those may all have originally been constraints, perhaps a need to get the game working on the XSS, who knows. The world may have needed to be segmented into small enough pieces, and rapid traversal options through those pieces would break things. So they planned it this way, and somehow, it doesn't just work, it works beautifully. Right now, I'm really liking this.

avin
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
Good post. I've noticed over the years that I don't remember nearly as many street names as I did when I was younger due to my dependency on GPS on my phone, that real life mini-map. Playing Starfield, I've started looking around more for landmarks and such to find my way around. Now the city of New Atlantis is almost second nature to me. Now I'm not saying I'm ready for maps to be a thing of the past. I can't imagine trying to play a game like GTA without it, but in a game like this I think it has turned out to be a decision I can appreciate even if it was a bit annoying early on.

I don’t know. In my opinion not having a map is stupid. I rather have a map and quests designed with no floating markers in mind, like it was in Morrowind. In Starfield your character magically knows where everything is and most people are mindlessly chasing blue dot quest marker anyway.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
I don’t know. In my opinion not having a map is stupid. I rather have a map and quests designed with no floating markers in mind, like it was in Morrowind. In Starfield your character magically knows where everything is and most people are mindlessly chasing blue dot quest marker anyway.
I loved how it was in Morrowind, but if you had a city map you couldn't do that really. If the quest said go to Whetstone and look for my tablet, it wouldn't matter that there's no quest marker. You'd just instantly see where Whetstone is on a map. And they can't really do the spatial awareness thing on the planets either because of procedural generation. It's an odd decision but I think it works for this game in a weird way. 🤷‍♂️
 
By far the most aggravating thing in this game to me is that vendor refresh time - not the time itself, but the fact that I can travel all over the galaxy, do several quests, go to 5-10 different planets and yet when I come back to say New Atlantis, it still hasn't been "24 hours" or whatever the refresh is so I have to take a long ass nap in my ship. It just makes me feel like I'm teleporting everywhere because I know it means no time has really passed since I used the vendor!
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
By far the most aggravating thing in this game to me is that vendor refresh time - not the time itself, but the fact that I can travel all over the galaxy, do several quests, go to 5-10 different planets and yet when I come back to say New Atlantis, it still hasn't been "24 hours" or whatever the refresh is so I have to take a long ass nap in my ship. It just makes me feel like I'm teleporting everywhere because I know it means no time has really passed since I used the vendor!
You can also wait on benches or chairs if you see any in the city you can sit in. But yeah, it's tedious sometimes.
 

ZehDon

Member
Good post. I've noticed over the years that I don't remember nearly as many street names as I did when I was younger due to my dependency on GPS on my phone, that real life mini-map. Playing Starfield, I've started looking around more for landmarks and such to find my way around. Now the city of New Atlantis is almost second nature to me. Now I'm not saying I'm ready for maps to be a thing of the past. I can't imagine trying to play a game like GTA without it, but in a game like this I think it has turned out to be a decision I can appreciate even if it was a bit annoying early on.
As the gag goes, "I wonder what the part of my brain that used to remember phone numbers is doing these days?".

I think Punished Miku Punished Miku made a good point, and it's something I've been considering thanks to my time in Diablo IV. In Diablo IV, you have a mini map, a main map, and way points. In the game, there are five major settlements, though they're quite small. Despite over 100 hours in D4, I couldn't tell you where anything is in any of them. I simply open my map, stick a way point on where i want to go, and ride along the line on my mini map till I get there. With Starfield, at 20 hours, I've nearly memorised the layout of Neon. Because there's no map for me to fall back on. I'm required to learn my environment in a way that modern games often don't. For years people were asking Bethesda to make their games a little more hardcore, a little more like Morrowind. I think with Starfield, they did. It's not for everyone, but as the saying goes: it is for me.
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
I loved how it was in Morrowind, but if you had a city map you couldn't do that really. If the quest said go to Whetstone and look for my tablet, it wouldn't matter that there's no quest marker. You'd just instantly see where Whetstone is on a map. And they can't really do the spatial awareness thing on the planets either because of procedural generation. It's an odd decision but I think it works for this game in a weird way. 🤷‍♂️

I disagree.

Right now quest giver tells me: go see this character and that's it. It's magically marked on my HUD.

Without quest markers quest giver would say something like this: go to Residential District in New Atlantis. When there look for a blue skyscraper. It's called Athena Tower. Go to the lobby and take 2nd elevator from the left. You meet your contact on top floor, apartment 312.

Yes, you would have a map to see where the Residential District is. But that's normal and expected. All the other steps you'd have to memorize and actually scan your environment to find. You know, explore and use your brain. Instead of just running after a blue dot.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
I disagree.

Right now quest giver tells me: go see this character and that's it. It's magically marked on my HUD.

Without quest markers quest giver would say something like this: go to Residential District in New Atlantis. When there look for a blue skyscraper. It's called Athena Tower. Go to the lobby and take 2nd elevator from the left. You meet your contact on top floor, apartment 312.

Yes, you would have a map to see where the Residential District is. But that's normal and expected. All the other steps you'd have to memorize and actually scan your environment to find. You know, explore and use your brain. Instead of just running after a blue dot.
For the record I'd love that too. Doing that in Morrowind was awesome.
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
For the record I'd love that too. Doing that in Morrowind was awesome.

Yeah, it went downhill from there.

All I’m trying to say is not having any kind of map in major settlements is stupid as fuck and doesn’t make game more immersive or whatever.

Same as not having a topographic map and land/water indicators when you land on procedural planet.
 
As the gag goes, "I wonder what the part of my brain that used to remember phone numbers is doing these days?".

I think Punished Miku Punished Miku made a good point, and it's something I've been considering thanks to my time in Diablo IV. In Diablo IV, you have a mini map, a main map, and way points. In the game, there are five major settlements, though they're quite small. Despite over 100 hours in D4, I couldn't tell you where anything is in any of them. I simply open my map, stick a way point on where i want to go, and ride along the line on my mini map till I get there. With Starfield, at 20 hours, I've nearly memorised the layout of Neon. Because there's no map for me to fall back on. I'm required to learn my environment in a way that modern games often don't. For years people were asking Bethesda to make their games a little more hardcore, a little more like Morrowind. I think with Starfield, they did. It's not for everyone, but as the saying goes: it is for me.
I like it - the only times I can think that I'd want a map were early on when I was figuring out where shops were, but that didn't take too long and now I know the area very well. The only other instance was a couple times in a dungeon trying to figure out how to get out, but then I recalled that using the scanner highlights the exit path, so I'm pretty happy with it as is.
 

Magic Carpet

Gold Member
On xbox is there ANY way to press a button to use an item like food, meds etc without having to go into a menu or making it a favorite item??

If I'm a little low on health and see a tomato.... Lete flipping eat it instead of pick it up to store!!
In the items menu press Y to put something into the D pad area. Tomatoes 🍅 only give like 5 health so it takes 25 to make a dent. Lots of food gives little to no help fixing the low health situation.
 
Beta Marae 1… I’ve spent hours trying to completely survey it. I’ve been stuck on 98%, can’t find the last creature, some wetlands bastard that doesn’t exist. Must be a glitch. Very frustrating.

Came across a Reddit post with the same issue.
 

kuncol02

Banned
Beta Marae 1… I’ve spent hours trying to completely survey it. I’ve been stuck on 98%, can’t find the last creature, some wetlands bastard that doesn’t exist. Must be a glitch. Very frustrating.

Came across a Reddit post with the same issue.
Maybe some fish?

Starfield is really missing pokedex style encyclopedia of planets (and catalogue of visited cities/space stations/bases)
 

Topher

Gold Member
I don’t know. In my opinion not having a map is stupid. I rather have a map and quests designed with no floating markers in mind, like it was in Morrowind. In Starfield your character magically knows where everything is and most people are mindlessly chasing blue dot quest marker anyway.

I understand that take as well. I'm mainly talking about visual learning of landmarks in cities and such. I think in games like Skyrim I'm always dependent on the map regardless. In a perfect world, games would let us select any of these options. If I want markers and you want maps then the game lets us both pick.
 

SJRB

Gold Member
Are the powers broken or underpowered?

I unlocked two (gravity blast and gravity field) but they don't do anything? I expected stuff to float and people to get knocked back, but nothing really happens? I feel that this was part of something bigger that didn't make it into the game.
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
I understand that take as well. I'm mainly talking about visual learning of landmarks in cities and such. I think in games like Skyrim I'm always dependent on the map regardless. In a perfect world, games would let us select any of these options. If I want markers and you want maps then the game lets us both pick.

I’m no game designer but I’d make a map for settlements with fog of war, you unfog it as you explore it. And if you find a kiosk / info center, you could just buy the map. On that map all major points of interest would be marked but only after you visited them. Oh and you should be able to drop pins with comments to mark stuff for later.

Quest givers should give detailed descriptions to allow marker free exploration. Markers could be turn on or off. You could make some stupid game device like AR googles that players can unequip if they don’t want any floating shit covering the screen. Or just an extra functionality to existing scanner.

Same with procedural planets. I hate that your scanner can pick up points of interest kilometres away but when I land on a coast I have no way of knowing which way the actual fucking coast is.
 
Maybe some fish?

Starfield is really missing pokedex style encyclopedia of planets (and catalogue of visited cities/space stations/bases)

There doesn’t seem to be any actual bodies of water on the planet. No ocean, not even any lakes or shit that I have seen in hours of exploring.

Agreed on the codex of exploration. I thought I’d actually come across a couple of whatever this last creature is but it turned out to be some of those slugs that are on lots of planets and don’t count towards surveying. Forgot what they are called. Also found a few of the other small things you can’t scan, Heatleeches.

It’s so disappointing to see a blueish hue which means something that hasn’t been scanned and it’s one of these little things 😔
 

lefty1117

Gold Member
Last night I finished the UC quest line. I won't spoil it, but it was long and involved and went in a different direction than what I thought. Started as a routine do a few jobs thing and turned into a galaxy-spanning intrigue where the threat was a potential catastrophic event for humanty.

Side quest.

One of my favorite things about it was the lengthy epilogue, where I was congratulated over and over and gifted some stuff. I mean I would have liked some more credits but I came out of it with some pretty sweet stuff and a few permanent discount things.

Now I think I'll grab Sam and head over to Freestar...
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
There doesn’t seem to be any actual bodies of water on the planet. No ocean, not even any lakes or shit that I have seen in hours of exploring.

Agreed on the codex of exploration. I thought I’d actually come across a couple of whatever this last creature is but it turned out to be some of those slugs that are on lots of planets and don’t count towards surveying. Forgot what they are called. Also found a few of the other small things you can’t scan, Heatleeches.

It’s so disappointing to see a blueish hue which means something that hasn’t been scanned and it’s one of these little things 😔
There are oceans. It's just difficult to find them. I too was stuck hardcore on a planet scanning until I realized there are little swimming son of a bitches in the ocean.
It'll say "Biome name (COAST)." It's not present on many planets, but it's on a few. Also the birds as said above are challenging.

And like MidGenRefresh MidGenRefresh said, you can land on the coast, but then you have to make sure you start running in the right direction which may take a little trial and error, and maybe using your photo mode drone to look up high.
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
And like MidGenRefresh MidGenRefresh said, you can land on the coast, but then you have to make sure you start running in the right direction which may take a little trial and error, and maybe using your photo mode drone to look up high.

Yeah, not having a map when you just want to see the ocean is so stupid. Find a hill and climb it or just run in direction where flora is getting sparse.
 

Roberts

Member
Are the powers broken or underpowered?

I unlocked two (gravity blast and gravity field) but they don't do anything? I expected stuff to float and people to get knocked back, but nothing really happens? I feel that this was part of something bigger that didn't make it into the game.
Weird, I use GB all the time and it works for me.

edit: but I admit that some of them are near-useless.
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
Yeah, not having a map when you just want to see the ocean is so stupid. Find a hill and climb it or just run in direction where flora is getting sparse.
I've never tried using that on foot surface map on a coast. As far as I can tell that map is useless. I forget it's even there other than to access the fast travel to the ship.
 
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MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
Don't forget the lack of basic communications. Essentially no radio outside of your ship.

There are quests where radio communication is utilised and then there are quests where you’re separated from the group and you can’t communicate. It’s not very consistent.
 

Buggy Loop

Gold Member
So what do you guys do basically with so many ressources? Sell?

Seems like most of my science is locked anyway as of now so they're sitting and taking place in cargo.
 

Roberts

Member
Are the powers broken or underpowered?

I unlocked two (gravity blast and gravity field) but they don't do anything? I expected stuff to float and people to get knocked back, but nothing really happens? I feel that this was part of something bigger that didn't make it into the game.
I will answer you again, because I just realised that my initial answer was totally useless.
I remember when I got the first one - was it Gravity Field, you know, the floaty power and i tried to use it against starborn and it didn't work. Then I kind of forgot about the power, but after picking up a few more (the one that predicts future is kind of fun for use in conversations) made me experiment with them and Gravity Field totally works against pirates and other baddies. Other than that, I think I have picked up majority of them, but actively use only 3 or 4. Others are kind of useless for me personally, maybe others have better use for them.
 
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