-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo: Reach |OT5| A Monument to All Our Sins
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
The Real Napsta
Member
Of course they like it, the less randomness the better for competitive play.Devolution said:
I just realized that with damage bleed though back we can make the DMR a 4-shot without breaking the game.
Not responding to your post. Just popping in to say I love your avatar. Bastion was amazing and the OST is godlike.Roddslayer said:
Also, wow at how fast this thread EXPLODED after ONE video.
After Halofest is done we're going to be at OT 6 before Anniversary launches.
Speaking of that, I assume Anni will get its own OT on the gaming side, but HaloGAF regulars will stick to here to discuss it amirite?
I've had bad experiences with Halo threads on the gaming side.
The Antitype
Banned
Tashi0106 said:
I just popped a boner reading this post.
So true.
Devolution
Member
The Real Napsta said:
I would think so, yet we keep having people like Trounce and Tashi talk about it elevating the skill gap.
xxjuicesxx
Member
I've already pretty much mastered bloom, its not "interesting" to me anymore. Now I look at battles and see shit I don't have the time to win this one by skill even though I got the first three shots and they turned around and return spammed four and got lucky, Crap either I run or I take a lotto chance!
This is why I like a no-bloom playlist.
If bloom wasn't so SEVERE on the DMR it would be great! If there was no bloom at all and it becomes a H2 BR, EVEN GREATER.
Lets let our speed and aim reflect who will win. Won't even have a problem losing to that!
This is why I like a no-bloom playlist.
If bloom wasn't so SEVERE on the DMR it would be great! If there was no bloom at all and it becomes a H2 BR, EVEN GREATER.
Lets let our speed and aim reflect who will win. Won't even have a problem losing to that!
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Thermite said:
LMAO. WILL SOMEONE THINK OF THE .MAP CHILDREN???
Seriously though, what is all this no boom talk? I saw the Damnation video and didn't notice anything different other than that damage bleed through with the Plasma Rifle.
The Henery
Member
Devolution said:
I can't believe there is any complaining at all! Whatever happens, you will be able to play Reach as it is, forever, should you wish to. The TU just adds greater versatility to the game, more options, to please everyone. What is wrong with that?
And let's behonest here, nobody expected to see a bloomless gameplay vid tonight. The nitty gritty on the TU has always been scheduled for Halofest - why should that change to appease impatient forum goers? What we got tonight should be viewed as a treat.
Kibbles
Member
The only weapon with no-bloom it seemed is the DMR, when he picks one up at 4:13 here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSrlaIJkm0M you can see.Domino Theory said:
Stripper13
Member
Your way.OuterWorldVoice said:
I might also add that the changes look amazing at this point and I'm looking forward to the information overload next week. Again, my frustrations were with the whole secrecy/NDA/media-release/event plans that more often than not, keep the dedicated fans in the dark while some douche games journalist types up a half assed analysis for some quick hits.
Basically - apologies glorious Frankie, I should have known better than to question Halo/Bungie/343i. That, and I was having an awful day at work yesterday.
Account Attempt #4
Member
EDIT: I must've misread so many things, I don't know what ...wat?
Devolution
Member
Tashi my issue is bloom is broken. I'm not shit at the DMR (I'm not the best either for those who would put words in my mouth), and what frustrates me beyond anything else in this game is getting out shot by someone I know I can outshoot but due to the way the game is currently set up, I lose out. To me that's not really acceptable. And the fact that there isn't a work around is a piss off. I know when I fuck up my shots, I also recognize when my shots are clearly inferior due to lag and bloom.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Thermite just pointed it out to me.
HOLY FUCK. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!
HOLY FUCK. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!
The Antitype
Banned
I've never understood the hatred for bloom.
I could take it or leave it. I think it helped Bungie balance the weapon sandbox better than any other Halo, because the ROF/accuracy trade-off pushed players to keep each weapon within it's role.
If 343 thinks they can balance the game without resorting to bloom, great. I look forward to seeing if they succeed.
But I have never, EVER, felt as though I lost a fire-fight because bloom screwed me over or favored the other guy. And yes, I have a great connection so maybe that helps.
But when I lose a fire-fight to a spammer, it was because I put myself in the position to lose - I entered close/mid-range into a DMR battle. If I had kept to mid-range and timed my shots against the spammer, he would have lost. I sacrificed accuracy for ROF, and played the odds. If I had done the smart thing, either keeping my distance or switching to a more appropriate short-range weapon like the AR, I would have come out on top, bloom or no bloom.
As for how bloom makes it harder for one player to take out more than one opponent, Bungie went on record as saying they were intending for Reach to be more team-oriented.
Under such a direction, one player SHOULD find it extremely difficult if not impossible to take out a number of opponents unless they are in a very weakened state. Coordinate with your teammates, and you'll have the backup necessary to survive.
I really don't see the problem with balancing a game to force players to play smarter.
I could take it or leave it. I think it helped Bungie balance the weapon sandbox better than any other Halo, because the ROF/accuracy trade-off pushed players to keep each weapon within it's role.
If 343 thinks they can balance the game without resorting to bloom, great. I look forward to seeing if they succeed.
But I have never, EVER, felt as though I lost a fire-fight because bloom screwed me over or favored the other guy. And yes, I have a great connection so maybe that helps.
But when I lose a fire-fight to a spammer, it was because I put myself in the position to lose - I entered close/mid-range into a DMR battle. If I had kept to mid-range and timed my shots against the spammer, he would have lost. I sacrificed accuracy for ROF, and played the odds. If I had done the smart thing, either keeping my distance or switching to a more appropriate short-range weapon like the AR, I would have come out on top, bloom or no bloom.
As for how bloom makes it harder for one player to take out more than one opponent, Bungie went on record as saying they were intending for Reach to be more team-oriented.
Under such a direction, one player SHOULD find it extremely difficult if not impossible to take out a number of opponents unless they are in a very weakened state. Coordinate with your teammates, and you'll have the backup necessary to survive.
I really don't see the problem with balancing a game to force players to play smarter.
xxxstylzxxx
Member
Focus Rifle buff would be scary. While not the sniper rifle equivalent by any stretch once you figure out how to compensate for the recoil it's pretty damned effective. Oh and that bleed through is just......................
i nerini del buio
Member
Even if bloom rewarded skill, it still would be not fun, imo.
It makes the game so slow that it's not even interesting to start gun battles. So many times you have the upper hand on a couple of enemies (maybe because you placed a good frag between them) and still it takes so much time to get the double kill and most likely end up unshielded (meaning this that the only way to get triple+ kills is by rocking a rocket launcher or by exploiting stuff like evade+sword or shotty), that really is unsatisfactory.
Yeah, my main problem with Reach is that it's unsatisfactory. It's not fun.
It makes the game so slow that it's not even interesting to start gun battles. So many times you have the upper hand on a couple of enemies (maybe because you placed a good frag between them) and still it takes so much time to get the double kill and most likely end up unshielded (meaning this that the only way to get triple+ kills is by rocking a rocket launcher or by exploiting stuff like evade+sword or shotty), that really is unsatisfactory.
Yeah, my main problem with Reach is that it's unsatisfactory. It's not fun.
PooBone
Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
Alright, so I just watched the video, the only difference I noticed, honestly, was no bloom on the DMR. And was it stronger than before? Seemed like he was pwning bs angel awfully fast w/ the DMR.
Not sure about the armor lock. He could have just let go of the button to deactivate it.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I also noticed some bleed through melee w/ the plasma rifle kill.... right? Plasma rifle hasn't always been so powerful as to take three rounds to drop shields, right?
The Henery
Member
Is the TU release date being announced at Halofest?
Devolution
Member
Tunavi said:
Yup, those shields are up before the melee kill.
I literally don't want to play Reach until the TU.
I'll be on later tonight, but I won't enjoy it one bit
We can moan together.
yes i recognize the innuendo
Also really antitype? You can't understand the hatred for a broken mechanic? Say what you want about it adding more skill, it's still inconsistent. The fact that people are saying "nah you're pacing at the wrong time" should tell you enough about how dumb of a mechanic it is.
ShortBizzle
Member
Very nice 343. Can't wait until the rest of the details unfold.
This thread is moving at break neck speed. I've had to resort to speed skimming to get through it! Keep the good news coming 343.
This thread is moving at break neck speed. I've had to resort to speed skimming to get through it! Keep the good news coming 343.
It would be great if it was fixed, since less bugs are always better, but I doubt it'd be a high priority. The Gauss cannon fires so fast I doubt it'd ever be used in Matchmaking, just like the missile Hornet in Halo 3. It's just so powerful.FyreWulff said:
Then again, maybe 343 can tweak it''s ROF and make it work. Maybe even on every map.
The Antitype said:
Is this why people still use the DMR regardless of what ranger they're at? You're actually encouraged to spam the DMR at close range, when in fact I thought the whole purpose of something like bloom was to keep ranged weapons from dominating CQC like the BR.
I really can't wait to see how the population shakes out after the Anniversay playlists hit...Living Dead still obviously the top playlist by 20K.
Reagan's BR
Banned
A27 Tawpgun said:
We should just call OT6: Halo: Reach/Combat Evolved Anniversary |OT6|.
Ramirez said:I think here is the main problem with it, there's such a gray line on where you should spam, or where you should pace. Then there are times when a guy is far away from you, spams and kills you anyways, it's a terribly inconsistent mechanic, and to me, it's just plain not fun.
On another note, I just want to thank the guys at 343 for listening to the (probably?) vocal minority and giving us these options. Coming from people who were so stubborn they wouldn't even add another bullet to the Pistol clip, this is a breath of fresh air that the series needed.
Oh, and obviously keep feeding us the info as it's done now, it's better than none at all. None of the guys from Bungie/343/any other dev HAVE to talk to the community like this, it just further proves how ignorant some posters are.
OK so do you want an indicator telling you how fast you should be shooting? No, you don't because you and many other people think bloom is broken. But to me, as someone who doesn't think bloom is broken, it sounds like it's too hard for you and many others to master. Obviously I know you're a very skilled player Ram and I don't think you're a casual but from my perspective bloom isn't broken, it works. I definitely haven't mastered it either. It's not perfect but it doesn't hinder on me having fun and I'll tell you what, turning around down a couple shots and five shotting someone is super satisfying. Sometimes, I'm left puzzled as to how I was killed or how I didn't get a kill but that happens rarely for me. I don't know, we'll never agree on this. We just have wildly different experiences with it.
And judging by the celebration around the internet, I think I'm in the minority lol.
And Devo, don't associate me with the average MLG forum dweller. There are definitely some nice, informed and well mannered players over there but from my experience it's tough to find. Which is why I'm here
Also Thermite, when did you get this funny :lol
Rickenslacker
Banned
This thread really blew up! I am looooooving what I see. Particularly the YouTube comments crying about the improvements. I'll be playing Reach again!
Now to clear my hard drive for that 5.9GB TU.
Now to clear my hard drive for that 5.9GB TU.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Ramirez said:
Its infectious!
AS for the DMR argument. Think of the RADAR argument.
Idea: Radar helps everyone know where people are unless crouching, but slows a players speed. Used to break setups and hide. Adds depth and BALANCE to gameplay.
Thought 1: Noobs need radar lets remove it because a real good player will know where a player is by instinct and knowledge of spawns, weapon spawn times and map trends (general movement, hold positions, objective-oriented positioning)
Thought 2: Noobs might be SO bad they don't even use it or use it too sparingly, thus removing it removes a vital part a smarter player WOULD use. In turn the noob gets a bigger advantage from its removal than a pro would.
I'm in Camp 2. I'd rather have it then get assassinated by a terrible kid who got a lucky LUCKY spawn.
DMR w/ bloom idea: The bloom balances the weapon sandbox by adding a luck/no luck shot depending on the players choice of time between shots. BALANCE and depth to gameplay.
Idea 1: Not only do you have to aim but time the DMR shots right based on length between shots and distance of enemy. This adds skill and balance to gameplay.
Idea 2: Noobs are so bad that they lose a lot but quite often spam and get kills especially on a good player who just outskilled another player and is just weak and doesn't have enough TIME to kill the other player. This removes skill and balance to gameplay. So remove it.
I'd say I'm in camp 2. Again.
Devolution
Member
Ramirez said:
It's such a strange (or stupid) mechanic. Especially the way its explained to me by its defenders.
You're supposed to pace, except when you can get away with spamming.
What.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
xxjuicesxx said:
Did you really just go there?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBhdIcb84HwFyreWulff said:
For those that don't know the song FyreWulff posted is a WrassleGAF inside joke.
Devolution
Member
Tashi0106 said:OK so do you want an indicator telling you how fast you should be shooting? No, you don't because you and many other people think bloom is broken. But to me, as someone who doesn't think bloom is broken, it sounds like it's too hard for you and many others to master. Obviously I know you're a very skilled player Ram and I don't think you're a casual but from my perspective bloom isn't broken, it works. I definitely haven't mastered it either. It's not perfect but it doesn't hinder on me having fun and I'll tell you what, turning around down a couple shots and five shotting someone is super satisfying. Sometimes, I'm left puzzled as to how I was killed or how I didn't get a kill but that happens rarely for me. I don't know, we'll never agree on this. We just have wildly different experiences with it.
And judging by the celebration around the internet, I think I'm in the minority lol.
And Devo, don't associate me with the average MLG forum dweller. There are definitely some nice, informed and well mannered players over there but from my experience it's tough to find. Which is why I'm here
Also Thermite, when did you get this funny :lol
Do you play with your MLG like minded bros a lot? Good team shotting can pretty much keep stupid bloom related incidents to a minimum. That actually might account for you not seeing the issues others are having.
The Antitype
Banned
Ramirez said:
Because they're idiots?
If I encounter a DMR user at close range, I switch to AR (or shotty if I have it) and make quick work of them.
Spamming the DMR only works against players equally stupid enough to spam the DMR back at you.
If you try spamming the DMR at an opponent smart enough to keep the mid-range gap and time their shots, you lose.
Devolution said:
I don't play with MLG people. But I play with people that actually use their brains and communicate as a team, so it could be why I also don't see all the problems other people seem to be having with it.
If you try spamming the DMR at an opponent smart enough to close the gap and unload with a short-range weapon, you lose.
Tashi0106 said:
LoL, your posts these days come off as someone sitting on some high pedestal in the sky. You're basically saying that me and others who don't like bloom are simply too stupid to figure it out, don't sugarcoat it brotha.
Obligatory,
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=10009637&player=TJ Ram
Something like this happens on a pretty regular basis when I play, and I'm on the opposing end of it more often than not. There's nothing to master, it changes from game to game, and is inconsistent unless you're host. I feel like we're playing two separate games.
But is that DMR firing at the same max speed as the current dmr? I thought they would slow it a tad to compensate? Still, even if fast, everyone is at an even ground now and it's all about skill and teamwork, not dice rolls.
And Tashi, you're offending us... c'mon man, think about it for a second
And Tashi, you're offending us... c'mon man, think about it for a second
metareferential
Member
Nice move 343, now everyone will buy the game, even those who didn't want to at first xD
Kibbles
Member
No more bloom, Hallelujah!
The Antitype said:
They're not idiots, the DMR is just as effective at close range as it is at long range, and spamming works because the people are closer to you, eliminating the blooms wild aim.
And we have another guy claiming that he plays with people who "use their brains", HaloGAF, a bunch of dummies confirmed.
Devolution
Member
Too hard for me to master? No. More like I'm hitting a stupid ass ceiling in certain games when I play. I have a brain. Do I really have to get into a pissing match about DMR k/d or something?
Similar threads
- x2