Gamerguy84
Member
I remember a time when DF would say it just couldn't recommend the PS3 version over 360 or any other because of any performance issues.
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Digital Foundry: Silent Hill 2 Remake PC "Visuals Scale Beyond PS5 - But #StutterStruggle Cannot Be Avoided"
- Thread starter GrayChild
- Start date
Gamerguy84
Member
Yea UE if messed up. Glad PS has Decima and others.
Dirk Benedict
Member
Ray Reconstruction ups the visual ante for me, man. I know there are people having issues with the games performance, including the damned stuttering, but I feel so blessed to have this running smooth, balanced DLSS, 4k with RT on. Tiny dips but mostly locked at 60fps, even during busy screens with all kinds of stuff being thrown about. Turned on HDR (my display has one of the weakest, but still looks better than without it)
It's games and times like these that I look at the machine I put together and tell me self "it was worth it".
kevboard
Member
I installed a mod that improved my image quality to the point where I can barely even tell I'm running at 835p internally, and it put my fps into the high 80s, low 90s with hardware RT enabled on an RTX 3060ti
I then also found the UE5 engine.ini command that disables the screen space reflection overlay over LUMEN to make the reflections as artifact free as possibe.
if the traversal and animation stutters were gone, it would be absolutely perfect.
I'll try clamping down the delta time to 60hz next and see how that goes.
I then also found the UE5 engine.ini command that disables the screen space reflection overlay over LUMEN to make the reflections as artifact free as possibe.
Code:
r.lumen.reflections.screentraces=0if the traversal and animation stutters were gone, it would be absolutely perfect.
I'll try clamping down the delta time to 60hz next and see how that goes.
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Dorfdad
Gold Member
Well I could say I paid less for my stutters?
I have a 4090 also so it sucks no matter what
Fess
Member
You’re looking at it from the wrong perspective. YOU don’t need DF, DF need YOU. Or maybe not you but warriors fighting over things they can’t actually see without someone pointing it out in a graph or zooming in 400%, it’s why the fighting always peak after the analysis is out.
DF exist because the warriors looking at the videos is what gets them the money to keep going. simple as that. And they move away from Xbox vs PS because Xbox is dead, sort of. Now it’s PC vs PS. Soon it’ll be PSSR vs DLSS. DF always finds new versus scenarios, if they didn’t they would have to close.
As you say, normal gamers have already bought the game, this video isn’t made for them.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
You wouldn't have to choose between Performance and Fidelity with the PS5 Pro.
kevboard
Member
how do so many on this forum have Digital Foundry Derangement Syndrom?
imagine looking at a video which is warning consumers about a piece of software with sever technical issues, which openly displays these issues to the masses, possibly motivating the publishers and developers to actually fix their broken products... and then shitting out a post like yours, or the braindead post you quoted.
it's astonishing really. and it's no wonder developers think they can get away with literally releasing broken software if this is how "gamers" (there aren't enough quotation marks in the universe to adequately bring this across so I'll leave it at one on each side) react to pro consumer video criticism.
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Fess
Member
Read the thread. How many are genuinely here because they wanted help deciding where to buy the game? It’s too late for that when 99% who were interested has already bought the game or even finished it.
Where a DF like deep dive should be used is pre-release, early enough that things can be changed.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
How can unreal 5 be this bad. I thought this was going to be fixed from unreal 4. Such a dog shit engine to have not prioritised fixing this over adding all the other fancy shit.
Bojji
Member
Well I didn't mean to derail the whole Thread with a single notion against the usual sad display from that user, but I imagine my claim has priority over the outlandish crap he posts to some.
I've added "noticeably" to the original post.
It is a bit cryptic, but also states "developed reflex specially in the mind to reduce input lag with DLSS" which is in contrast with "but Reflex predates it by 2 years." I would imagine these things R&D taking plenty of time, but it's also possible they couldn't rule out more prominent side effects of future DLSS iterations maybe? Don't know.
Fastest possible, from Fighter pilots and Formula One drivers fall into the 100 – 120ms, which is still much more and almost double most console games at 60fps.
And sure as shit we won't put a guy who never notice even extreme cases of stutter into superhuman Fighter Jets and F1 pilots category.
This ain't path tracing, nor RT shadows or reflections, nor even RT AO, this ain't sub-1080p native res vs native 4K, nor is 30fps vs 120fps.
Bragging about Reflex is scraping the bottom of the barrel, not as much as "retarded controls" is but in that ballpark still.
Have YOU used reflex? I can see clear difference and I'm not a fucking jet pilot, lol.
You know that human eye cannot see more than 30fps? Hahaha.
Reflex is a BIG difference, it reduces lag so much it even allows frame gen to be playable.
They didn't care, they just added fancy new tech to UE4 and called it a day, performance was still TERRIBLE.
After years they started improving terrible CPU performance (5.4 version?), stutters are still there and SH2 uses old 5.1 version of the game.
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Thebonehead
Gold Member
It had a bug causing horrendous stutters when you panned around using the mouse on release
Using controller eliminated it. Guessing you played with controller.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Glad I went with the superior platform to play this on and not PC
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
SH2 Essentials - FPS Boost and Graphics Enhancer
Fixes broken & ugly effects like SSR. Reduces ghosting. Improves the quality of all upscaling & anti-aliasing methods. Enhances post-processing effects. Improves performance. Improves loading
www.nexusmods.com
. Very active ex-Ubisoft dev modder.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
You mean the only one version that don't have stuttering?
Yeah I agree
It's a PS game so I'll take that win too
Corporal.Hicks
Member
Not really, the game still runs like crap on weaker CPUs and even on my Ryzen 7800X3D I cannot double the PS5 framerate. In some levels I see over 120fps, but certain levels dips to around 80fps because of CPU limitation. TLOU CPU performance on PC is not surprising. It takes many CPU cores to match the decompression chip on the PS5. The game is smooth to play on my 7800X3D (flat frame time, no stutters), so I cant complain about my experience. On something like the ryzen 3600 (and even the 3700X) the game will however run worse than the PS5 version.
Patches mainly improved streaming and vram usage for people with 8GB and 10GB VRAM cards. Even the launch version ran smoothly on high-end PCs with 12-24GB of VRAM
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The Janitor
Member
Exactly, this should be priority one right now. The longer they don't fix it, the more games are going to be released that are going to be broken forever.
I mean a demanding game can be brute forced, but a game with stutter will always stutter no mater what hardware you throw at it.
Ronin_7
Member
Vick
Gold Member
I referred to console used instead of platform, as it technically isn't the same. But maybe I'm wrong.
But I'm not saying you don't, also because as a PC player you natively play most games with more input latency than players do on PS5 so of course the jump to Reflex would be more apparent.
..and in some cases even with Reflex On you still get more latency and only way to get a 3ms difference over PS5 would be to disable V-Sync.
..and I'm not sure why the hell they measured God of War based on shield equip from idle when everyone knows it take much longer than other actions like dodging due to the shield equip animations, but it's an Nvidia sponsored content so whatever.
All I'm saying is bragging about these differences over Consoles as if they were transformative, with a real gaming impact like "I can only dodge on time on PC" when the reaction time of literal superhumans is around 100-120ms and even in the worst scenarios the latency difference is around half of that, is as sad as it is hilarious.
Especially when implying all PC gamers get these "advantages" automatically over those pathetic Console gamers playing with 400ms at 10fps.. but at this point you necessarily know this already given how clear I've been, and yet keep insisting for whatever reason. And doesn't really take much to imagine that reason given you have no problem whatsoever with the usual crap he posts and even agree with him often, so whatever.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Eh, nah. It looks good on PS5 (I’m fortunate enough to own both)! That said, the PC version is a CLEAR step up and ray tracing is a big reason for that.
Bojji
Member
Please, tests you posted are done with 60Hz refresh rate, majority of PC players don't use that (and don't remember what it is). Even having the same framerate, jump from 60Hz to 120Hz refresh rate reduces input lag.
But I'm not saying you don't, also because as a PC player you natively play most games with more input latency than players do on PS5 so of course the jump to Reflex would be more apparent.
..and in some cases even with Reflex On you still get more latency and only way to get a 3ms difference over PS5 would be to disable V-Sync.
..and I'm not sure why the hell they measured God of War based on shield equip from idle when everyone knows it take much longer than other actions like dodging due to the shield equip animations, but it's an Nvidia sponsored content so whatever.
All I'm saying is bragging about these differences over Consoles as if they were transformative, with a real gaming impact like "I can only dodge on time on PC" when the reaction time of literal superhumans is around 100-120ms and even in the worst scenarios the latency difference is around half of that, is as sad as it is hilarious.
Especially when implying all PC gamers get these "advantages" automatically over those pathetic Console gamers playing with 400ms at 10fps.. but at this point you necessarily know this already given how clear I've been, and yet keep insisting for whatever reason. And doesn't really take much to imagine that reason given you have no problem whatsoever with the usual crap he posts and even agree with him often, so whatever.
I like that you ignore almost 3x latency reduction here with reflex in some games. And as I said above, most PC players use refresh rate higher than 60Hz.
Vick
Gold Member
But, although at 30fps, PS5 version has RT and according to Alex Epic settings. Ray Reconstruction and the much better HW reflections are the real clear step on PC.
Well any reflection setting actually looks better than any on PS5, which is funny.
However, despite what some people would try to tell you, in reality it doesn't appear stutter is "just the same or worse on PS5".
Here a 77800X3D + 4090 using DLSS Performance drops to 52 because of traversal stutter, when same traversal on PS5 stay at locked 60fps even in presence of enemies or drop a single frame to 59 and in the worst cases to 58.
Would be nice to get 1:1 but as is looks like stutter actually isn't close being a real issue on PS5, in the first video there's that guardrail zone which is the most covered area to show stutter on PC and it stays at locked 60fps on PS5 or at worse 59 for a fraction of a second.
All Performance Mode drops, like the beginning woods walk or multiple enemies pool fight, appear to be related to insufficient computational power only.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Excellent post! And 100% agree about stutter on PS5. I have a lot less, no doubt about that!
owandeseis
Member
I don't understand these comments about humans reaction being around 200 ms on average against the input lag, this doesn't mean any lag under 200ms won't be noticeable, if you scare a cat you'll see his reaction is almost instant, if you scare a person you'll notice his reaction is actually slow.
Normally console games have around 100-130ms input lag at 60 FPS and 150-200 at 30 FPS, you can check on sites like this: https://www.skytopia.com/stuff/lag.html how noticeable it is.
Or if you play games like league of legends, you can compare by playing at like 40 ms on your server and at like 120 ms on a different region and check, for some people it's just fine and they don't care, for some other it becomes unplayable.
Same goes for some TV's that have high input lag, like 80-100ms but have a game mode with 20-40ms , many people will find the difference huge, some others won't care.
It all depends on the kind of game and the kind of player i guess
Flyingpanther
Member
Going to buy it during the Christmas sale. Then it will be patch i think
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
That depends on the game. Spider-Man 2's use of it is fantastic, for example.
Bojji
Member
Looking at F1 and DR1 remake pro will fix that to some extend.
I wonder if SH2 will have hardware lumen setting on Pro.
Vick
Gold Member
For the umpteenth time, because it serves to indicate it would never become a real issue in gaming sessions scenarios, in response to a claim Console players play with 400ms..
There's no way in hell that simulator offers an accurate depiction of how analog stick games feel to control on Console, not even RDR2 on a cheap LCD at 30fps feel like 150ms does in it.
At this point there's no choice but to actually record me playing on the Pana, and I fucking hate you guys for it.
And I'm the one who would never play on an LCD, not even at 60fps as 30fps on my panel feel twice as responsive as 60fps do on a regular LCD.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
I wonder why.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Sure. Like there were not players complaining about the 8 frames of lag in Street Fighter 6. But only some fighter jet players, of course.
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Vick
Gold Member
I wonder why.
You know what? Nevermind, I don't care, you won.
PC games gets you natively much less input latency than the 400ms you get on Console, a place where players are stuck at 10-30fps with crap IQ and retarded controls. There is no stutter issues on PC on any game, and if they are they are worse on Console. You definitely don't suffer from micropenis condition or similar, and I won't ever engage in a discussion with you ever again.
From an Nvidia Sponsored Reflex AD on Digital Foundry:
Came close to actually and unironically ask my wife to record my hands while testing games.. what a goddamn moron. This place does no good for me.
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Buggy Loop
Member
Am I the only one pondering where the fuck he got the tables from?
What was the setup, methodology? There’s few few sites I trust to test system latency right.
owandeseis
Member
Once again depending on the game, reaction time doesn't matter because no attack from an enemy gives you 0 or even 100 ms to react, it's always higher, if an attack takes 250ms to hit you and the average human reaction is 200ms, if you add 100 ms input lag then you'll eat it, while if the input lag is 40 ms, you might be fine. As i said, it's all about the game and the gamer, 50ms difference in a league of legends, a Call of Duty, Counter Strike or a fighting game is a lot and can be gamechanging, while for the majority of games it's whatever.
RDR2 input lag is huge, even on PC, and it feels worse than 150ms on the simulator i did put:
And not sure what an average LCD panel input lag is, i remember i had to refund a TV i bought because it had 80-100 ms input lag when i was young, in that moment is when i started learning about input lag, if you compare a 100ms panel to some 1-10 ms monitor for example, the difference is higher than a 30FPS to 60 FPS actually.
The average 100ms from a 60 FPS game in console is fine, it's perfect in most cases, no need to exaggerate anything, but it's improvable in fast paced, competitive games such as fighting games, Fifa, etc, it's still good don't get me wrong, just could be better.
daninthemix
Member
What I love is that PS fanboys do not give up without a fight. They are worthy adversaries. It simply wouldn't be any fun for me otherwise.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Bojji
Member
Vick
Gold Member
He's just on a mission to become the #1 most cringeworthy PCMR exponent.
Let him cook.
This doesn’t make sense. We were using LCD monitors (at smaller sizes) before LCD TVs became viable and took off meaning consoles were on CRT longer than TVs for a long while. What's that got to do with the system latency though? That is an external factor.
DLSS also does increase latency by a percentage but it reduces rendering time by lowering res anyway. The whole point is to increase native framerate. For a given base res though vs native base without DLSS your input latency would be higher (along with frametime) with DLSS.
It's Digital Foundry.
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nkarafo
Member
The worst thing about these Unreal Engine stutter issues is that they will plague these games forever. Even in 20 years from now where we will have systems that can run these games at 300fps/8K, these games will still stutter, you can't brute force this with faster hardware.
I just attempted to replay SCORN (a game that has some very intense traversal/shader cache stutters) and even though the last released patch claims these issues are fixed, they are not. I uninstalled the game and i'm probably never going to try it again because of this.
Unreal Engine games will forever be bad, that's what i'm saying.
I just attempted to replay SCORN (a game that has some very intense traversal/shader cache stutters) and even though the last released patch claims these issues are fixed, they are not. I uninstalled the game and i'm probably never going to try it again because of this.
Unreal Engine games will forever be bad, that's what i'm saying.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
System Latency is defined as the entire system from the controller/mouse to the display. It’s included in the process.
- System Latency: The time encompassing the whole end-to-end measurement - from the start of peripheral latency to the end of display latency
So, I also included the display there.
As for DLSS, just like with PSSR, the frame time cost and latency is pretty negligible and certainly not the reason they created Reflex. We're talking low single digits here.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Imagine a pathectic world where people wish for games to not deliver a best possible experience. The logic of console warriors devoted to their preferred brand.
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By system latency I mean the "PC latency" and "console latency" if using nvidia terminology then.System Latency is defined as the entire system from the controller/mouse to the display. It’s included in the process.
- System Latency: The time encompassing the whole end-to-end measurement - from the start of peripheral latency to the end of display latency
So, I also included the display there.
Yeah it's not much, was just making it clear that DLSS does increase latency because you stated it doesn't.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Frame generation increases latency. DLSS doesn't.
There is a latency cost to DLSS but the whole point of it is to increase your framerate by lowering rendering time (thus gaining overall). For a given framerate though you end up with ever so slightly higher latency.
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