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DOTA 2 BETA 2 |OT10| Reborn

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Dreavus

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Just played a game as Spectre and tried a build other than "Get a Radiance ASAP"

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1522440571

Honestly, Spectre has always been a strange hero. Seemingly a very abstract concept in general of how the hero is played. I mean, when I first looked at the hero when I started playing, I was like "This hero's ult seems kind of cool, but otherwise seems kind of useless early game." Now granted I understood how the hero was considered a carry, but actually using the hero effectively is a whole different beast. I'm starting to understand it a bit better now.

If I had to come up with a name of the type of carry Spectre is, I would call her an "Existence Carry", as the idea is to carry basically by existing. Early game is usually pretty rough unless you are somehow snowballing, however once again, the idea here is to build stuff here to SURVIVE. I always crapped on Vanguard as an item in general (especially before Crimson Guard was a thing), but honestly, I underrated it on Spectre. It effectively can be a farming item as basically it allows her to either survive what's coming at her, or tank jungle camps. Yeah, it doesn't offer much in the way of aggression, but that's not what Spectre does.

One thing that is straightforward about the hero is that pretty much her entire strategy is to just farm farm farm, and Haunt in on teamfights. The items you want are either tankiness or stuff that benefits Illusions (Diffusla, Butterfly, etc.).

Honestly this hero has always been an abstract thing to me, and I understand her a lot better now, although there are still some aspects that are a bit weird.

One thing that still puzzles me: When do you actually decide it's worth buying Radiance on her, and when do you buy it if so? Do you get it just immediately? (Brown Boots into Radiance) or get maybe Vanguard first?

Hero's a little weird, but I have a newfound reSPECT for her.

I love Spectre! I've been carrying a lot in our little 5 stack and Spec is one of my favourites. I used to ALWAYS max dagger first and didn't really think of trying anything else, but recently have taken to maxing desolate instead, with one in each of the other skills. It lets you do a lot of damage early on if you can get it to activate while smacking someone, and makes you somewhat dangerous while still having a value point in disperse and a dagger point for escaping.

Desolate doesn't seem like much at first glance but being true damage makes the values a little misleading. Dagger only gives you a little more speed difference and a bit more damage for each point, which doesn't do a ton for a skill you will be using to escape over terrain with and can only cast a handful times due to the mana cost. With 4 in desolate at level 7 your illusions can hit pretty damn hard right out of the gate if your enemies are positioned incorrectly.

I might try Vanguard again sometime, but I find that it just slows down your other items, even just the RoH is such a bummer to have to get some games (but sometimes you need it). Especially if you max dagger, you are just useless for a big chunk of the game when it doesn't have to be that way. Radiance is different beast and it's best if you can get it fast, which I think is the advice that goes for lots of heroes that want that item. I think before vanguard if you can swing it, but obviously if you are being pressured that can be tough. I tend to view radiance as a farming item so the earlier the better if you are going to get it.

I usually go phase, Orb of Venom, then go right for diffusal or sometimes directly yasha --> Manta. Manta is kind of expensive to get right away but it's just ridiculous with desolate if you can activate it on someone successfully. Lately I've been getting Skadi after that which is amazing for chasing and helps a lot with HP/Mana, but something like heart is also very good.
 

Hylian7

Member
I love Spectre! I've been carrying a lot in our little 5 stack and Spec is one of my favourites. I used to ALWAYS max dagger first and didn't really think of trying anything else, but recently have taken to maxing desolate instead, with one in each of the other skills. It lets you do a lot of damage early on if you can get it to activate while smacking someone, and makes you somewhat dangerous while still having a value point in disperse and a dagger point for escaping.

Desolate doesn't seem like much at first glance but being true damage makes the values a little misleading. Dagger only gives you a little more speed difference and a bit more damage for each point, which doesn't do a ton for a skill you will be using to escape over terrain with and can only cast a handful times due to the mana cost. With 4 in desolate at level 7 your illusions can hit pretty damn hard right out of the gate if your enemies are positioned incorrectly.

I might try Vanguard again sometime, but I find that it just slows down your other items, even just the RoH is such a bummer to have to get some games (but sometimes you need it). Especially if you max dagger, you are just useless for a big chunk of the game when it doesn't have to be that way. Radiance is different beast and it's best if you can get it fast, which I think is the advice that goes for lots of heroes that want that item. I think before vanguard if you can swing it, but obviously if you are being pressured that can be tough. I tend to view radiance as a farming item so the earlier the better if you are going to get it.

I usually go phase, Orb of Venom, then go right for diffusal or sometimes directly yasha --> Manta. Manta is kind of expensive to get right away but it's just ridiculous with desolate if you can activate it on someone successfully. Lately I've been getting Skadi after that which is amazing for chasing and helps a lot with HP/Mana, but something like heart is also very good.

I sometimes go max Desolate, usually only against a solo offlaner though. I think usually my build is either max Desolate or max Dagger though, and maybe sometimes max Dispersion.

I don't always want to get Vanguard, but I do find in most situations (especially pubs) you will get bullied and will probably need it. Yeah, sucks that it delays shit, but it's better than dying with a Stout Shield, Quelling Blade, and Boots for 15-20 minutes.
 
past couple times ive played her ive prioritized dispersion actually

i feel like in the early game youre generally very unlikely to do much right clicking for desolate (and high level desolate + level 1 haunt is always disappointing) and while dagger can be a good nuke extra levels dont help you stay alive any more or farm any better
 

iamblades

Member
Pretty sure you always want Radiance on her, she's one of the heroes on which it's always good. I really don't like seeing mid-game items like Blademail/Vanguard/etc on her though, it just either delays her radiance or your end game items. Manta is also super good on her for obvious reasons.

Eh, not really, I mean its nice to have, and you can get use out of it even it you pick it up as a late game item because of the miss chance, but I rarely actually build it, because I find it better to just build as a complete tank.

I almost always max desolate first and go a bunch of early items, drum/ ring of aquila and usually a vanguard(just because pubs rarely have proper defensive support play and it seems like its always dual lane vs dual lane so I find I kind of have to get vanguard no matter how much it delays damage items(though with max desolate just upgraded boots +drums +aquila you can still pick off weak heroes solo if they wander off alone I find).

After I start building real items, my build is almost always diffusal>manta>heart>skadi. If the game went late enough that I would replace my vanguard I would probably get either radiance or butterfly, but games rarely go that long.

You want raw hp out the ass on spectre(nothing beats almost single handedly wiping a team with just dispersion + illusion damage while your main hero is being focused), and you only need enough damage to take out the squishies at the start of the fight and make in a 3v5.

I think you need to build early game items on Spectre to start, or you will get shit on if the enemy is at all coordinated about ganking. The issue with building radiance as your first real item is that the build up sucks ass, and you will still farm nearly as fast with diffusal +yasha which is about the same gold, but you will be way better in fights.


If you have the ideal situation of a great 4 protect 1 team and complete uninterrupted freefarm, sure go radiance, but I have never seen such a scenario at my shitty level of play.
 

Sibylus

Banned
1,753 hours:

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D

Deleted member 77995

Unconfirmed Member
650 matches. never played cenntaur, meepo or waifu wyvern
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Awwww he stopped engrish strim back to full nihongo


Another shit format

Its an ok format, good for weekend cups. I think it will become bigger after the Majors, since there won't be as much free time to run 3rd party tournaments.
 
Won another 3-prediction treasure, got the Necrophos set; really want the vengeful spirit one...

I hope all these sets I'm getting are worth their weight when I start trading them off.
 
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